The Intention To Sin

[nleyetn]

If you intend to sin or you know you are going to sin, then you have already sinned. My main question about that is: If the sin you intend to do is a mortal sin, then is the sin you get from intending to do it also a mortal sin, or do you have to actually do the act of your intention before you commit a mortal sin? What happens then if someone intends to sin, but before they actually do, they have a change of heart and their intention changes resulting in them not actually going through with it?

What if you think there's a good chance you might fall into sin, but you don't fully plan on it happening? Does this affect the outcome at all?

[CatherineM]

It's all about your intention. Not what you try to tell yourself, but what you actually know your intentions.

[nleyetn]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1532412' date='May 18 2008, 01:19 PM']It's all about your intention. Not what you try to tell yourself, but what you actually know your intentions.[/quote]

Well, I was thinking somebody can intend to do something but not go through with it in the end, so do they still commit a mortal sin even though they didn't do it.

I guess part of the question is can a mortal sin be committed before you actually commit the sin. Or do you have to fully go through with the act? I know you can commit a venial sin that way but I wasn't sure about mortal sin.

I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying though, you're saying it still would be a mortal sin for the intention?

[CatherineM]

No, that's not exactly what I meant. In law it is called mens rea. You can have the thought to kill, but if you don't kill, then it isn't breaking the law. You can accidentally kill someone, but if you didn't have the mens rea, or guilty mind, to kill them, then it isn't murder. It may be manslaughter, or anything in between. It's not a moral sin if you don't actually go through with it. It may be a sin to think about doing it, like say adultery. Thinking about doing it is probably an impure thought, but until you actually engage in the intimacy outside marriage, it's not a mortal sin. God allows you the free will to change your mind up to the point it happens.

[nleyetn]

Thank you for clarifying. The free will part of it seems to makes sense because God knows that even though we may intend to do something there is hope that our intention can change before we go through with it.

I also just found this from the Catholic Catechism at [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#IV"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#IV[/url][quote][b]1857[/b] For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."[/quote]
Unless I'm just reading to much into the choice of words used to phrase it, it seems that the use of the word [b][i]committed[/i][/b] would also indicate that it has to be the action itself and not just the intention to do it.

Thank you for the input.

[nleyetn]

I just got back from Confession & Mass, and I talked to the Priest about this. He said if you fully decide to do something that is a mortal sin, then you commit a mortal sin with your decision. If you later decide against it then that is a virtue, but you would still need to confess that you intended to do it.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='nLEyETn' post='1533708' date='May 19 2008, 04:34 PM']I just got back from Confession & Mass, and I talked to the Priest about this. He said if you fully decide to do something that is a mortal sin, then you commit a mortal sin with your decision. If you later decide against it then that is a virtue, but you would still need to confess that you intended to do it.[/quote]

This doesn't make sense when you consider masturbation. When an individual has the sexual urge to commit the act, sometimes - especially in the teen years - it's a biological impulse due to hormones; not, say, the teenager looking at impure photos and then feeling the desire to masturbate. Anyway, this hormonal impulse urges the temptation to sin. Does that mean that this individual has committed a mortal sin, by having the temptation (biologically)?

Edited May 20, 2008 by HisChildForever

[CatherineM]

I tend to yield to a priest's interpretation of what is a mortal sin, and what isn't. As to impure thoughts, I have been told repeatedly that the thought coming into our heads is normal, it only becomes a sin if we encourage the thought and/or act upon it. When such things come into our heads, we are to try to get our minds onto something else as quickly as possible.

[nleyetn]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1534322' date='May 19 2008, 09:45 PM']This doesn't make sense when you consider masturbation. When an individual has the sexual urge to commit the act, sometimes - especially in the teen years - it's a biological impulse due to hormones; not, say, the teenager looking at impure photos and then feeling the desire to masturbate. Anyway, this hormonal impulse urges the temptation to sin. Does that mean that this individual has committed a mortal sin, by having the temptation (biologically)?[/quote]

No just the temptation wouldn't make it a sin. Somebody can be tempted by something but decide not to do it, Father said that would be considered virtuous since in the face of temptation they chose the right thing. The sin comes from when somebody is tempted and then they decide that they will go through with the act that they are tempted by.

I also asked Father about when you know that there is the possibility of going through with a sinful act. He said you can be focused on the temptation at the present moment and what you decide then will again be virtuous or sinful depending on how you proceed. The possibility of sin still exist for the future because you know the temptation will likely stay or return which means you will have to deal with it again. When you face that temptation again it will be the same thing where you have to decide to give in or reject it for that moment. You have to focus on what you're dealing with in the present knowing that you will likely be dealing with the same issue again in the future. Just deal with it as it comes along not worrying about what is to come after until the time actually comes.

Basically if you decide there is no question about it, that you are going to commit a sin, then the intention has been made which is considered a sin. If you know the temptation will return but you will also try and fight it, then you haven't necessarily committed a sin because you haven't accepted it at that point.

Edited May 20, 2008 by nLEyETn

[TeresaBenedicta]

Intriguing topic.

Just to make a quick note, I would say that if there is the intention to sin, but then some outside force keeps one from actually committing the act, one is still guilty of the sin? In this case one did not decide to not sin, but was kept from sinning by an outside force. The intent would be there and had circumstances arouse as they were thought to, the action would have been taken.

What do you guys think? Sin, or no?

[nleyetn]

That situation also came up in my discussion with Father; he said that once you decide to sin, you have sinned. Now if you do not go through with the sin because you are prevented from an outside force then the sin from the intention remains. If you do not go through with it because of a change of heart, then the sin from the intention still remains. The difference with the second scenario where you decide not to go through with it is that you have made a virtuous decision which is pleasing to God. Yet in both situations you still have the sin from the intention which still needs to be reconciled.

Father also tried to stress the fact about the difference between fully deciding to sin and thinking about the possibility of sinning. When you decide, that means you are planning on sinning. When you ponder the possibility, you are not fully consenting to it. When I spoke to him about all of this, we were speaking in terms of mortal sin.

[goldenchild17]

I'll have to check my Moral Theology book when I can find it. Maybe I'm mistaken but I'm not convinced simply intending to sin is a sin. It could be a sin of harboring evil thoughts, but I don't think it's a sin against whatever the intended act was going to be. I know that for a sin to be considered mortal the intent AND the act must be their, not just the intent alone. So I'm not sure if it's right to say that the intent IS the act of the sin. Scripture does say that just looking at a woman impurely is to commit adultery in your heart (or some such thing like that, I'm not good at bible memorization ), but does this apply to all sins. Do you steal when you intend to take candy from a store, but don't do it. Do you murder when you make plans to kill someone, but for one reason or another, don't end up doing it? Maybe, but I'll have to check my book, because I'm not convinced this is the case.

[cappie]

Basic principle: Action with intention has full fruit. The intention without action has half fruit.

To intend a bad action but not to carry through is a sin although it would be a venial sin.

St Thomas: Summa Theologica > First Part of the Second Part Question 76. The causes of sin, in particular

Reply to Objection 2. So far as voluntariness remains in the ignorant person, the intention of sin remains in him: so that, in this respect, his sin is not accidental.

Edited May 20, 2008 by cappie

[goldenchild17]

okay. thanks for the Summa quote. I'll still check my books, but you are probably correct. I just like to be sure.