I Attended Obamaroma

[cmotherofpirl]

Excellent point not brought up often enough!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1534595' date='May 20 2008, 11:09 AM']is he in support of gay marriage? I thought he only failed to support the protection of marriage as a man and a woman, but I thought he wasn't fully on board with legalizing homosexual marruage...[/quote]
Strictly speaking, I believe he's on the record as supporting gay civil unions, but not gay "marriage," whatever that means...it's really just semantics.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1534577' date='May 20 2008, 09:28 AM']Please do NOT be deluded: by voting for Obama you are voting for increased availability of abortion, using taxpayer funding for promoting abortion in developing countries, increased birth control in schools, and gay marriage.

What part of Obama in the list below can you mesh with [color="#FF0000"]any[/color] Catholic teaching:
Men have the sense to know that they are helped by Planned Parenthood (i.e., free sex, no responsibility)
Abortion rights = equal rights with men
Wants to win Presidency and ensure the Supreme Court tips toward liberals
Partial Birth abortion should not be banned
“I put Roe at the center of my lesson plan when teaching constitutional law”
Stands by his liberal abortion voting record
He will not yield on abortion rights, particularly concerning appointing liberal Supreme Court nominees
“Choice” is a lifestyle
“Culture wars are just so 90’s”
Teach science/contraception to girls in school
Never be willing to consign (punish) a teenaged girl to a lifetime of struggle because of a lack of access to birth control
Churches like United Trinity Church of Christ understand that abstinence and fidelity are the ideal and not the reality
Stay at home motherhood and the nuclear family is an “ancient notion”
Abortion rights help women to break through the glass ceiling
Planned Parenthood’s first Margaret Sanger Award in 1966 was awarded to Martin Luther King Jr, who wrote in his acceptance speech: “Our sure beginning in the struggle for equality by non-violent direct action may not have been so resolution without the tradition established by Margarget Sanger and people like her.”

THese are from his own speech to planned parenthood![/quote]


That list is fine but I can't understand what it is with Christians like you and so many others on this forum who, when ticking off the wrongs of Obama, NEVER mention his extremely dubious relationships with people and groups involved in a virulent campaign of racism and anti-Americanism, not to mention his dubious ties with representatives of Hamas and the Nation of Islam. There are dozens of people actively posting in these forums and only about 3 of us bother to even bring in Obama's relationships. What is that makes you all NOT consider these dangerous bedfellows as much a threat to the stability of our nation and as immoral as the things you listed?

Edited May 20, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='kujo' post='1534590' date='May 20 2008, 09:55 AM']I don't know that there's much need to lie about this stuff, to be truthful. Abortion is legal and will not be less-legal if there are more abortions being performed. I think your suspicion is valid, but I doubt there's much to it.[/quote]

Well, I found some interesting stuff when doing a little research last year... You can find abortion numbers through two major organizations monitoring them... The CDC, Center for Disease Control, would be the governmental numbers for reported abortions yearly. Then you have the Alan Guttmacher Institute, AGI, which is PP's research monitor for trends.
Now, the very odd thing is that the organizations get their numbers differently and normally the CDC underscores the estimate by a couple hundred thousand, about an average of 500,000 for the past 3-4 years. To quote from [url="http://www.nrlc.org/ABORTION/facts/abortionstats.html"]NRLC.com[/url], "CDC researchers have admitted it probably undercounts the total number of abortions because reporting laws vary from state to state and some abortionists probably do not report or under-report the abortions they perform."
It's even odder that the AGI itself factors in a 3% raise due to undercounting itself.

That being said, even the AGI numbers do show a decrease in the number of abortions performed, but no where near as great figure wise as the CDC shows. As the CDC also have started to exclude several states from their reports over the past 10 years, the numbers are even more misweighted.

Is there a need to lie? Ideally, no. Do they? I'd bet my bottom dollar that the numbers are in no way complete., partially due to the differing laws, underreporting, ect...

Just my two cents

Edited May 20, 2008 by CatholicCid

[Didymus]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1534611' date='May 20 2008, 11:34 AM']That list is fine but I can't understand what it is with Christians like you and so many others on this forum who, when ticking off the wrongs of Obama, NEVER mention his extremely dubious relationships with people and groups involved in a virulent campaign of racism and anti-Americanism, not to mention his dubious ties with representatives of Hamas and the Nation of Islam. There are dozens of people actively posting in these forums and only about 3 of us bother to even bring in Obama's relationships. What is that makes you all NOT consider these dangerous bedfellows as much a threat to the stability of our nation and as immoral as the things you listed?[/quote]

yes I have noticed you watch Fox News...

good work madame...

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1534631' date='May 20 2008, 10:51 AM']yes I have noticed you watch Fox News...

good work madame...[/quote]

I don't watch Fox.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1534611' date='May 20 2008, 12:34 PM']That list is fine but I can't understand what it is with Christians like you and so many others on this forum who, when ticking off the wrongs of Obama, NEVER mention his extremely dubious relationships with people and groups involved in a virulent campaign of racism and anti-Americanism, not to mention his dubious ties with representatives of Hamas and the Nation of Islam. There are dozens of people actively posting in these forums and only about 3 of us bother to even bring in Obama's relationships. What is that makes you all NOT consider these dangerous bedfellows as much a threat to the stability of our nation and as immoral as the things you listed?[/quote]
O I think his ties are indicative of his true opinions, and that is very bad news for the US, but I am concentrating on reasons why Catholics simply cannot vote for him. As far as I am concerned his election will result in the eventual destruction of the United States.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1534666' date='May 20 2008, 11:08 AM']O I think his ties are indicative of his true opinions, and that is very bad news for the US, but I am concentrating on reasons why Catholics simply cannot vote for him. As far as I am concerned his election will result in the eventual destruction of the United States.[/quote]

Okay. I was genuinely just curious b/c a lot is made of his abortion record but then there are just so many other things that are just...very worrisome.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='kujo' post='1534549' date='May 20 2008, 08:05 AM']I disagree with the comparison between Obama (or any pro-choice person) and Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao, etc.
I believe their actions were the epitome of evil and that they committed some of the most vile acts of violence upon the human race; however, they were still children of a God who loves them.[/quote]

I fail to see how you could logically disagree with the comparison. The fact remains Abortionist Leaders, Nazi Leaders, and Communist leaders all legally denied a group of people 'personhood', and support the legal termination of that group. Denial of this commonality is a denial of reality. The wicked actions of Abortionist Leaders have lead to some of the most evil, wicked and vile acts which the human race has ever seen.

[quote name='Raphael' post='1534553' date='May 20 2008, 08:21 AM']Even Satan is intrinsically good, because he still bears God's image in his nature. I believe it was St. Basil of Caesarea who said (in regard to humans) that the image of God remains, but the likeness of God fails in sinners. The image of God is intrinsic to nature, and one's nature does not chance when one becomes wicked, but their likeness to God does.[/quote]

Yet Satan is still Evil and wicked. Stalin and Hitler whilst not as evil as the devil, where still evil for the evil they caused. Abortionist leaders are also evil for the evil they have caused.

[Winchester]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1530760' date='May 16 2008, 07:19 PM']So you don't consider a turban cartoon, especially as Madam V used it, racism?[/quote]
I wasn't aware turbans were a racial characteristic.

This is why kids shouldn't be permitted to be part of the election process.