Unjust War As Intrinsically Evil As Abortion?

[kujo]

Once a war has been universally-determined to be unjust, does it carry with it the same intrinsic-evil as abortion? I think it does.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kujo' post='1531331' date='May 17 2008, 09:47 AM']Once a war has been universally-determined to be unjust, does it carry with it the same intrinsic-evil as abortion? I think it does.[/quote]
Of course an unjust war is sinful, but trying to compare war (just or unjust) to abortion is really inappropriate, because -- as I have already indicated -- war can be either just or unjust, while abortion is always, and by definition, unjust.

As far as war is concerned, various criteria must be met for a conflict to be considered just, but the moral determination as to whether or not a particular war is just will always be open to a degree of debate.

[kujo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1531341' date='May 17 2008, 12:57 PM']Of course an unjust war is sinful, but trying to compare war (just or unjust) to abortion is really inappropriate, because -- as I have already indicated -- war can be either just or unjust, while abortion is always, and by definition, unjust.

As far as war is concerned, various criteria must be met for a conflict to be considered just, but the moral determination as to whether or not a particular war is just will always be open to a degree of debate.[/quote]

Agreed. I agreed with your previous post as well...was just reiterating your stance.

[KnightofChrist]

First and most important no war has ever universally been declared the Church to be unjust. The Church has however universally declared abortion to be intrinsically evil, and a non-negotiable. The two are not the same. Even if a war where to be universally-determined unjust not every action or event within that war would be unjust. An example could be that just because a war is unjust does not necessarily make a battle or battles won by either side within that war unjust. Good fruits can come from even an unjust war, in abortion however the good fruit is murdered.

The article would seem to be nothing more than an attempt by the left to justify for themselves voting for Abortionist, and to seduce the voters to do the same.

The Iraq war has not been declared unjust or an non-negotiable and it is very doubtful the Church ever will. Logically [b]if[/b] the war in Iraq is unjust and intrinsically evil then our troops, their generals, our elected leaders who voted for the war, and the President of the United States are guilty of war crimes and are war criminals. And if that is the case there must be justice from an independent body, which means American would have to lose her sovereignty.

[kujo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1531385' date='May 17 2008, 01:25 PM']Good fruits can come from even an unjust war, in abortion however the good fruit is murdered.[/quote]

What do you think of the woman who has an abortion, then realizes how terrible and wrong it is, repents and comes back to Christ. Those are good fruits. Obviously it in [b]no way[/b] justifies the murder of her child...but it still results in good fruits.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='kujo' post='1531416' date='May 17 2008, 11:39 AM']What do you think of the woman who has an abortion, then realizes how terrible and wrong it is, repents and comes back to Christ. Those are good fruits. Obviously it in [b]no way[/b] justifies the murder of her child...but it still results in good fruits.[/quote]

Ah yes indeed, however the abortion itself was intrinsically evil, the case is not so with war wether it be just or unjust.

[Apotheoun]

One may not do evil that good may come of it.

[kujo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1531423' date='May 17 2008, 01:43 PM']Ah yes indeed, however the abortion itself was intrinsically evil, the case is not so with war wether it be just or unjust.[/quote]

Of course. I was pointing out that sometimes good things come from the worst of circumstances. I remember looking for the proverbial "silver lining" during my parents' divorce when I was a freshman in high school. You know what it ended up being? My reversion to Christ.

God can turn the ugly into the beautiful. That's the theme of one of my favorite songs called "Something Beautiful" by Jars of Clay:

"So close my eyes and hold my heart/cover me and make me something/change this something normal/into something beautiful."

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='kujo' post='1531431' date='May 17 2008, 11:46 AM']Of course. I was pointing out that sometimes good things come from the worst of circumstances. I remember looking for the proverbial "silver lining" during my parents' divorce when I was a freshman in high school. You know what it ended up being? My reversion to Christ.

God can turn the ugly into the beautiful. That's the theme of one of my favorite songs called "Something Beautiful" by Jars of Clay:

"So close my eyes and hold my heart/cover me and make me something/change this something normal/into something beautiful."[/quote]


The Cruxifixction and death of Christ is an perfect example of how God can take something bad, Deocide and defeat evil with that act. But yes as Apotheoun points out and so others do not confuse what I say, we can no do evil so good can come from it.

Edited May 17, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[kujo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1531439' date='May 17 2008, 01:50 PM']The Cruxifixction and death of Christ is an perfect example of how God can take something bad, Deocide and defeat evil with that act.[/quote]

Amen.

[Apotheoun]

Men of good will can disagree about whether or not a particular war is just, but as far as the immoral nature of abortion is concerned there can be no disagreement

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1531446' date='May 17 2008, 11:53 AM']Men of good will can disagree about whether or not a particular war is just, but as far as the immoral nature of abortion is concerned there can be no disagreement[/quote]

Amen, brother.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

All I have to say to this thread is this,

The last lines for the Kingdom were,

Jason Bateman to Jamie Fox - what did you whisper in Jennifer Garner's eart before we left?
Jamie Fox - don't worry, we're going to kill them all.

Muslim mother to her child - what did your grandfather whisper in your ear before he died?
child - don't worry, we're going to kill them all.

As were in the days of Noah, so too shall be the coming of the son of man. The entire world was filled with violence then, and its filled with violence now, because evil, Lucifer loving Luciferians are in control, and they hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate), appreciate) each other so much, and want to control the world so much, they will do anything to continue that dominance!

This war is ungodly. Abortion is ungodly. Death and destruction is ungodly, and its just messed up because the wrong people are in control right now - i.e. the Rothschilds, who control our nations, period, end of story!

Guess what, the Rothschilds are for both the war and abortion. . .

Edited May 17, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[CatherineM]

JIMSH-I'm surprised that someone who is as obviously intelligent as your posts would lead me to believe would fall for the fallacy of the Trilateral Commission. Somewhere along the road you have been gravely misled. There is obvious evil in the world, and it is certainly easier, and perhaps comforting, to be able to blame that evil on shadowy worldwide conspiracies, when in fact the evil is in our hearts. To acknowledge that is scary, but necessary.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1531658' date='May 17 2008, 04:46 PM']JIMSH-I'm surprised that someone who is as obviously intelligent as your posts would lead me to believe would fall for the fallacy of the Trilateral Commission. Somewhere along the road you have been gravely misled. There is obvious evil in the world, and it is certainly easier, and perhaps comforting, to be able to blame that evil on shadowy worldwide conspiracies, when in fact the evil is in our hearts. To acknowledge that is scary, but necessary.[/quote]

Catherine, there is evil in everybody's heart, true, and I have faced my evil, and the evil of my life is always before me.

I consider about 1/2 of the world untrustworthy, but there are those who have more control over the world than others right now.

The way I think of it is this - the Rothschilds fortune is estimated about about 600 trillion dollars right now. That is enough to lidiqudate and give about 70-90 thousand dollars to each person in the world. . .

To think they don't have power to sway people not to do what they ask is really naive, sorry to say.

I also think about three American Presidents when I say this.

Abraham Lincoln told members of the Rothschild family to get out of his office when they told him they could finance his war against the south. Abraham Lincoln was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth.

John Fitzgerald Kennedy tried to have the CIA dismantle after the Bay of Pigs incident, because he didn't want to be the President that would be responsible for WWIII. The CIA directors are almost always friends with the Rothschild family. He ended up being assassinated!

Ronald Reagan (Who is not the Anti-Christ by any means), created a commission to look where Income Tax goes, and found it goes off to pay off loans from the privately owned Federal Reserve, the brain child of the Rothschilds, and someone tried to assassinate him.

Hmmmmm, Here's three presidents who did something that made the Rothschilds angry, and two were assassinated, and one almost was. They were [b]probably[/b] involved! Don't be naive, that family is evil and probably kills presidents and other world leaders as it fits their goals!

Edited May 17, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero