Deut. 23 2

[LouisvilleFan]

Does anyone here want to argue that children are not affected by the sins of their parents? This verse, and the many other ones like it, aren't saying that God is going to curse the next ten generations just out of spite. It's a warning of the effect a parent's sin will have on their children and that this sin will pass on through several generations. The number ten shouldn't be taken literally, just like the common occurence of 40 isn't meant literally. More important is what the number means.

Not so much unlike how children born into poverty typically grow up to live in poverty themselves. The reasons they were born into it are usually the same reasons they struggle to escape it.

Edited July 2, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[EstoVir_TheWay_4]

[quote]Does anyone here want to argue that children are not affected by the sins of their parents? This verse, and the many other ones like it, aren't saying that God is going to curse the next ten generations just out of spite. It's a warning of the effect a parent's sin will have on their children and that this sin will pass on through several generations.[/quote]

Many of Deut.'s rules are practical rather than spiritual. Look at the example of incest. Obviously when applied to this passage, it warns against the biological reprucussions of such actions. The parents' actions directly affect the genetic diversity of the next generation and possibly more generations until acceptable genetic diversity can be attained. Remeber that Deut.'s rules about clenliness are not neccessarily spiritual, but practical.

[StColette]

[quote name='EstoVir_TheWay_4' post='1589074' date='Jul 2 2008, 11:34 AM']Many of Deut.'s rules are practical rather than spiritual. Look at the example of incest.[/quote]

Very true. Many of the Laws found in the Torah are there for practical purposes not necessarily for spiritual purposes. When taken this verse in the context of the whole, it warns against sexual sin in general. Micah and I addressed this earlier in the thread. There's a law in the Torah that says not to have relations with your wife during her period and this time is called unclean. Not because a woman is unclean during this time but practically speaking it is not as comfortable for a woman to have relations during this time and the likelihood of conception is very low. The same section goes on to say to wait 7 days until resuming relations, anyone who knows how a woman's body functions will know that 7 days after the end of a period is likely to be prime time for conception.

[quote]The number ten shouldn't be taken literally, just like the common occurence of 40 isn't meant literally. More important is what the number means.[/quote]

Biblical exegesis will tell you that the number 40 and 10 used in Scripture has both a spiritual as well as a literal meaning (Dei Verbum)

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='StColette' post='1589090' date='Jul 2 2008, 12:52 PM']Biblical exegesis will tell you that the number 40 and 10 used in Scripture has both a spiritual as well as a literal meaning (Dei Verbum)[/quote]

Everything in the Bible has a spiritual meaning You mean it's both metaphorical and literal? I've never read anything from a Catholic or non-fundamentalist Protestant point of view that says we should believe the Israelites wandered for exactly 40 years, or that Jesus was in the desert for exactly 40 days. Maybe it was, but is that something we're required to believe?

Perhaps God's laws for the Israelites are for both physical and spiritual health. We can see the physical benefits, but knowing that God is both human and divine in Christ and that our physical and spiritual existence are intimately tied together, what's to say that there isn't just as much of a spiritual benefit to obeying laws that are good for our physical health?

[EstoVir_TheWay_4]

[quote][i]EstoVir_TheWay_4[/i]: Many of Deut.'s rules are practical rather than spiritual.[/quote]

[quote][i]LouisvilleFan[/i]: Everything in the Bible has a spiritual meaning[/quote]

I meant "as well as" spiritual. I agree that obeying laws that have physical health benefits also has spiritual benefits.

And Deut. is first and foremost a spiritual writing. (Meaning, intended for the benefit of the spiritual health of God's people)

Edited July 3, 2008 by EstoVir_TheWay_4

[StColette]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1590009' date='Jul 3 2008, 10:18 AM']Everything in the Bible has a spiritual meaning You mean it's both metaphorical and literal? I've never read anything from a Catholic or non-fundamentalist Protestant point of view that says we should believe the Israelites wandered for exactly 40 years, or that Jesus was in the desert for exactly 40 days. Maybe it was, but is that something we're required to believe?[/quote]

I never said that everything in the Bible doesn't have spiritual meaning, I simply said it has both spiritual as well as literal, please read carefully. If you read Dei Verbum, which is Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation it addresses both what is meant by spiritual as well as literal sense.

This is article 12 from Dei Verbum it might make clearer what is meant by literal sense

[quote]12. However, since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, (6) the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words.

To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to "literary forms." For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. (7) For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. (8)

But, since Holy Scripture must be read and interpreted in the sacred spirit in which it was written, (9) no less serious attention must be given to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture if the meaning of the sacred texts is to be correctly worked out. The living tradition of the whole Church must be taken into account along with the harmony which exists between elements of the faith. It is the task of exegetes to work according to these rules toward a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture, so that through preparatory study the judgment of the Church may mature. For all of what has been said about the way of interpreting Scripture is subject finally to the judgment of the Church, which carries out the divine commission and ministry of guarding and interpreting the word of God. (10)[/quote]

Does that help you understand literal sense any better? Literal sense is often misunderstood, which has lead to a huge problem with the historical critical method. Literal sense encompasses the historical, cultural, customs, etc. of the period in which the particular part of Scirpture was written.

[StColette]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1590009' date='Jul 3 2008, 10:18 AM']Perhaps God's laws for the Israelites are for both physical and spiritual health. We can see the physical benefits, but knowing that God is both human and divine in Christ and that our physical and spiritual existence are intimately tied together, what's to say that there isn't just as much of a spiritual benefit to obeying laws that are good for our physical health?[/quote]

I will agree that a great majority of the laws found in the Torah have both a physical and spiritual benefit to them. But remember Moses allowed divorce to take place and Christ addressed this in the Gospel saying that it was because of the hardness of the hearts of man not because of God that this was allowed. I don't believe that particular law from the Torah has a spiritual benefit because it goes against God's original plan for marriage which meant no divorce and that still stands today.