Traditional Orders Attracting

[the lords sheep]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1528894' date='May 14 2008, 08:47 PM']I apologize...for trying to debate! i wasn't arguing or anything, just trying to give my two cents....
[/quote]


I think there's a difference between discussion and trying to understand one another, or even voicing opinions that debating. We are all adults, and we can have a discussion without being biting.

In Jesus and Mary,
Lauren

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1528746' date='May 14 2008, 05:51 PM']SSPX confuses me. I heard a story: A van carrying SSPX Dominican sisters broke down. The SSPX-ers decided to walk to the nearest gas station for help. Lo and behold...what do they find? A Roman Catholic Dominican convent just around the corner! They knock on the door, and the Roman Catholic Dominican Superior welcomes them with open arms. They tell her of their situation, and she answers, "You are just in time for Mass! After Mass we will help you." The SSPX-ers look at one another in awkward silence. They tell the Superior..."We can't go to your Mass. It isn't valid." The RC Dominican is absolutely astounded and speechless, doesn't know what to tell them, and just makes her way to the Chapel for Mass. After the Mass, she realizes that the SSPXers have made themselves at home in one of the convent waiting rooms. She decides to do her Dominican thing and invites them to breakfast, anticipating a discussion over their rejection of the Mass. They welcome the invitation, and during breakfast, the conversation turns to the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass. The RC Superior gives them an earful about obedience to the Magisterium and the Pope, does a quick lesson on Vatican II and simply asks where do they get their authority to believe what they believe? These SSPXer's admitted they DO NOT believe that the Pope is a valid Pope and that the Church's truly last Pope was St. Pius X. They told this RC superior that they were very happy to hear Pope Benedict admit that the Latin Mass was never prohibited. And they also told her that they are awaiting the day when the RC's finally do the right thing and bring everything back to traditional splendor before all the modernists Popes took reign and created havoc in the Church. TRUE STORY.[/quote]

Maybe a true story, but if so then they are not adhering to the philosophy of the SSPX, nor any Traditional Catholic because no such group/person I have EVER heard of would dare say that Pius X was our last pope. There are some jokes about "out-tradding" the trads and going back to a Greek or Aramaic ordinary mass, but they are only jokes.


[quote]So, I am absolutely confused as to what the SSPX is, what they believe in, and where are they heading???[/quote]

They have a website with most of this info.

[quote]Perhaps they don't even know! Or perhaps there are sedavacantist SSPX'ers now? They are perhaps splintering into other little groups, creating their own "protestant reformation" of what was Lefebvre's original plan?[/quote]

There certainly are certain individual priests/religious who have become sedevacantists. Lefebvre himself nearly became one and many (myself included) believe he would have been had he lived a few more years. There is a rift in the group, but the SSPX philosophy is that John XXIII-Benedict XVI were and are valid popes. Bishop Fellay the leader of the SSPX has made this very clear. He wouldn't be exploring opportunities for reconciliation if he didn't believe and propose this. Whether or not the SSPX ultimately breaks up into different groups time will only tell. I can tell you for a fact that if and when a reconciliation with Rome comes, there will be a rift in the group and many will not join in the reconciliation.

[quote]Anyhow, I don't find these sisters with their coifs and disobedience too appealing. I think I'll applaud the ones who although coif-less do wear the precious Dominican habit and are multiplying by living the traditional monastic life, their loyalty to the Roman Catholic Church and their obedience to the Pope.[/quote]

To each his own . You're obedience is to be applauded as well. peace.

[goldenchild17]

I will cut to the chase before mods come in . Yes, this group is a part of the SSPX. Yes they are in schism with Rome. Yes (I believe) links like the one in the initial post are not permitted here. There is big debate about this group and there are other appropriate forums in which to discuss the issues. Phatmass is not one of them.

mods, how'd I do?

peace

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1528746' date='May 14 2008, 06:51 PM']SSPX confuses me. I heard a story:
... [snip]
"We can't go to your Mass. It isn't valid."
... [snip]
These SSPXer's admitted they DO NOT believe that the Pope is a valid Pope and that the Church's truly last Pope was St. Pius X. They told this RC superior that they were very happy to hear Pope Benedict admit that the Latin Mass was never prohibited. And they also told her that they are awaiting the day when the RC's finally do the right thing and bring everything back to traditional splendor before all the modernists Popes took reign and created havoc in the Church. TRUE STORY.

So, I am absolutely confused as to what the SSPX is, what they believe in, and where are they heading??? Perhaps they don't even know! Or perhaps there are sedavacantist SSPX'ers now?[/quote]

When you post a story like this, about serious matters, could you please also post the sources from which you heard it, and times and places and the names of the two communities, if you know them? This sort of thing is [b]important[/b], so that people can believe you when you assure us that it is a true story, and since the stances you mention in the story are not the official stance of the SSPX.

As far as I know, their official stance is "The Novus Ordo can be said validly. It should never be said, and perhaps never attended, but in certain circumstances it can be said validly;" and then as GoldenChild explained about the Popes.

[dominicansoul]

I heard it from a Dominican Community here in the states, but I wish to protect their identity. So, you can believe me or not. But that is where I heard it from the Mother Superior of a Roman Catholic Dominican Community here in the States. The SSPX Dominicans, I have no idea their name or their province. I hardly believe this Superior would make this stuff up. It does seem the SSPX has splintered. This doesn't suprise me. If the foundation is disobedience, what is expected from the members? Apparently some SSPX'ers have become sedavacantists.

Edited May 15, 2008 by dominicansoul

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1529605' date='May 15 2008, 01:25 PM']I heard it from a Dominican Community here in the states, but I wish to protect their identity. So, you can believe me or not. But that is where I heard it from the Mother Superior of a Roman Catholic Dominican Community here in the States. The SSPX Dominicans, I have no idea their name or their province. I hardly believe this Superior would make this stuff up. It does seem the SSPX has splintered. This doesn't suprise me. If the foundation is disobedience, what is expected from the members? Apparently some SSPX'ers have become sedavacantists.[/quote]

yes some have, as many believe Lefebvre himself soon would have been. Time and circumstances often make people see things in a different light. This has happened for many clergy/religious of the SSPX as well as other groups.

and I'm not saying I don't believe you. All I'm saying is that if this is what that particular group believed then they do not follow the stance of the SSPX, nor any traditional Catholic at all.

Edited May 15, 2008 by goldenchild17

[VeniteAdoremus]

This topic will probably be closed soon, as goldenchild already mentioned... (how's your mum by the way, any news on the baby? )

The SSPX makes me tired. They're moving to Rome, then back again... and when a traditional monastery affiliated with Rome talks with the (real) Bishop to see what their position is now that the TLM is completely available, the SSPX immediately tells them that they'll abandon the monastery if the communications aren't halted.

(I'm sorry to be so vague... I don't want to link to SSPX sites. But it makes me so mad. Their own brothers, acting in good faith. Bah.)

[DiscerningSoul]

I am sorry that I posted something that turned into abit of a debate.
Again I just thought it was neat them saying that the more they became traditional the more vocations they had.
And I belive more and more vocations are being drawn to more traditional orders, if I am not mistaken?

I still feel drawn to the traditional catholic communities.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1529838' date='May 15 2008, 06:15 PM']This topic will probably be closed soon, as goldenchild already mentioned... (how's your mum by the way, any news on the baby? )[/quote]

Everything's fine so far. She's at an appt right now, I believe she's getting an ultrasound.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='DiscerningSoul' post='1529864' date='May 15 2008, 06:55 PM']I am sorry that I posted something that turned into abit of a debate.
Again I just thought it was neat them saying that the more they became traditional the more vocations they had.
And I belive more and more vocations are being drawn to more traditional orders, if I am not mistaken?

I still feel drawn to the traditional catholic communities.[/quote]

I think so. I'd say the traditional orders probably would receive more entrants than other orders. Though I haven't done the research to really know. Sometimes the communities not in communion with Rome receive more entrants than their "non-schismatic" equivalent because their supporters feel more necessity to support them. That's just speculation though really. I think the best thing to do is to look at traditional orders in communion with Rome and see what their entrant rates are. All I really know of is FSSP and ICK, though that's really only priests (I think?) not sisters. And I can't find their statistics anywhere. I know the SSPX numbers are on their site but I can't find the numbers for the orders in communion with Rome.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1529877' date='May 16 2008, 03:14 AM']I think so. I'd say the traditional orders probably would receive more entrants than other orders. Though I haven't done the research to really know. Sometimes the communities not in communion with Rome receive more entrants than their "non-schismatic" equivalent because their supporters feel more necessity to support them. That's just speculation though really. I think the best thing to do is to look at traditional orders in communion with Rome and see what their entrant rates are. All I really know of is FSSP and ICK, though that's really only priests (I think?) not sisters. And I can't find their statistics anywhere. I know the SSPX numbers are on their site but I can't find the numbers for the orders in communion with Rome.[/quote]

ICK has sisters: [url="http://www.institute-christ-king.org/AdorersRoyalHeart.htm"]http://www.institute-christ-king.org/AdorersRoyalHeart.htm[/url]

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1530168' date='May 16 2008, 04:05 AM']ICK has sisters: [url="http://www.institute-christ-king.org/AdorersRoyalHeart.htm"]http://www.institute-christ-king.org/AdorersRoyalHeart.htm[/url][/quote]

my mistake . I wasn't sure. Though my speculation still holds, based on those numbers I think.

Edited May 16, 2008 by goldenchild17