Armed Resistance Is Close.

[MC Just]

Sometimes taking up arms is necessary. We can't just sit idly by while thousands upon thousands of babies are dying. It think some people need to look at the history of the Church. We are the same church, the same church that went into battle and crusades. We are no different today. Although people are trying to change that. "Sit back and pray" Yes prayer is very important and essential but dont expect me to just sit back. Some times we need to take action. As the Catechism explains..........

[ironmonk]

We should evangelize, but some hearts will not change. Hearts are hardened.

You fail to forget the the media and hollywood have been anti-evangelizing for the last 50 years.

Unless people will listen, evangelization will not work.


NO ONE IS PLANNING A WAR OR ECCLESIASTICAL REBELLION!

Why can't people pay attention? Is it so hard to look at the big picture?

Start at my first post on this thread, then read the next one, then the next one, etc... take all into account.... not just one or two lines of them.


MC Just, Aloysius, & Don,

Since you seem to have gotten the point which have I posted... did you see anything on this thread, when taking into account all of my posts on this thread, to make you think I was saying we need to go to war?

Why is it so hard for a few people on this board to understand the simple english that I post? Why do they quickly forget my posts on the very thread?

Do I need to start copy and pasting everything I wrote previously on a thread with every reply so that they can draw the logically conclusions from my posts?

Why do some people have such tunnel vision?


God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited July 23, 2004 by ironmonk

[MC Just]

No.

[Cure of Ars]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 23 2004, 10:09 AM'] We should evangelize, but some hearts will not change. Hearts are hardened.

You fail to forget the the media and hollywood have been anti-evangelizing for the last 50 years.

Unless people will listen, evangelization will not work.


NO ONE IS PLANNING A WAR OR ECCLESIASTICAL REBELLION!

Why can't people pay attention? Is it so hard to look at the big picture?

Start at my first post on this thread, then read the next one, then the next one, etc... take all into account.... not just one or two lines of them.


MC Just, Aloysius, & Don,

Since you seem to have gotten the point which have I posted... did you see anything on this thread, when taking into account all of my posts on this thread, to make you think I was saying we need to go to war?

Why is it so hard for a few people on this board to understand the simple english that I post? Why do they quickly forget my posts on the very thread?

Do I need to start copy and pasting everything I wrote previously on a thread with every reply so that they can draw the logically conclusions from my posts?

Why do some people have such tunnel vision?


God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]

The tone of you heading and the first post makes it easy to misinterpret. To put it bluntly it had a lot of hype. It sounded like you wanted to go to war and it left out a lot about where you really stand in your first post. Your post worked on people emotionally but emotions and rational thinking do not mix well. I think that your post got people motivated to fight to stop abortion but the emotions got in the way of communication. Because of this it was hard for people to get where you really stand.

Edited July 23, 2004 by Cure of Ars

[ironmonk]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Feb 25 2004, 02:12 AM'] [b]2243 [/b]
[b]Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met:[/b] 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.



1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights;
[color=blue]Check. 30 years of abortion. 43,500,000 dead babies and counting [/color]


2) all other means of redress have been exhausted;
[color=blue]This is close. [/color]


3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders;
[color=blue]Check. With over 43 million dead babies, if a a hundred thousand people die to save another 43 million, then it will be worth it.[/color]

4) there is well-founded hope of success; and
[color=blue]Check. If every pro-lifer stood up for the innocent, without doubt we would succeed.[/color]


5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.
[color=blue]We must be patient, but if it does not change in the next few years, how many more innocent lives do we need to let die before we stand up and fight? 1.3 Million innocent babies per year.[/color]



Once all five conditions are met, it is a Catholic's duty to resort to Armed Resistance.

We cannot sit idle while so many babies are being killed.

[b]Proverbs 31:8 [/b]
Open thy mouth for the dumb, and for the causes of all the children that pass.
[b]9[/b]Open thy mouth, decree that which is just, and do justice to the needy and poor.

[b]Sirach 4:28 [/b]
Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you.



Do you feel it in your gut?

It's in the back of your mind... and has been there before.

You are here for something important. God has a plan for you but sometimes it's just not clear what.

Something to change the world... A great and noble cause....

Just maybe this is the fire that He wants to ignite in your heart....

Stand up and speak out... ESPECIALLY TO Catholics.

We all need to start calling senators... everyday. It's time to speak up for those who cannot.

And if we exhaust all of these measures.... then it's time for another civil war.

We should learn from Dr. Martin Luther King. Jr.... Look how he took to the streets and stood up for what was right.

The time is now to organize... for tomorrow we march.

The new moral truth site will be up soon.... God is calling you and asking you to call others... 64 Million Catholics in the US.... If ONLY 1% of us made it a point to call/fax/email 10 senators daily without stopping, we would make a difference.


Your Servant in Christ,
ironmonk [/quote]
[quote]Stand up and speak out... ESPECIALLY TO Catholics.

We all need to start calling senators... everyday. It's time to speak up for those who cannot.

And [u][b]if we exhaust all of these measures[/b][/u].... [u][i][b]then [/b][/i][/u]it's time for another civil war.

We should learn from Dr. Martin Luther King. Jr.... Look how he took to the streets and stood up for what was right.

The time is now to organize... for tomorrow we march. [/quote]

Please note the bold.

"Tomorrow we march" - came after speaking about Dr. MKL Jr.... peaceful protests is the logical conclusion.

The issue is something worth going to war over, but we must first exhaust all of our peaceful measures. The point is we need to take this seriously and save the lives of the innocent.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[God Conquers]

I'm not discounting the history of the Church at all.

Let's remember, Christianity took 500 years to be established in Rome and the western world.

It took 500 years before the threat from the east was great enough to warrant a crusade.

That crusade lasted 300 years.

We need to stop abortion NOW. This is an irrefutable fact. We need to get off our butts and proclaim the truth. We need to save lives now.

We must act to do this.

We also can't expect the changes to happen immediately.

[Chris Zewe]

I just read the first post and all I can possibly think of to say is thus...

[SIZE=14]LTFOL

[CatholicAndFanatical]

[quote]
So I believe enforcing the Code of Canon Law now rests with the individual bishops.
[/quote]

And you really think the individual Bishops are going to enforce it?? No, they are not. Why? Because they seem to think they can do whatever they want without recourse.

I know there are some great Priests and Bishops out there, my diocese happens to be one of the great ones..however, my Bishop is quiet in times like this..and it just urks me to no good.

My bishop and your bishop should of stood with the TWO bishops that actually spoke out in the media against Pro-death politicians and for the 'Rainbow Sash' wearing people trying to recieve Jesus..but nothing, all silent. Very irritating!


[quote]
MC Just, Aloysius, & Don,

Since you seem to have gotten the point which have I posted...
[/quote]

Wha? Im not worthy of being mentioned ..CAF, thats all you had to put, three little letters..man that hurts dawg.

It got me right here man *pounds on chest* - *sniff*

[Iacobus]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 23 2004, 10:09 AM'] We should evangelize, but some hearts will not change. Hearts are hardened.

You fail to forget the the media and hollywood have been anti-evangelizing for the last 50 years.

Unless people will listen, evangelization will not work. [/quote]
Thats sounds like something Osama would say. Convert to my form of Islam now and if not well lets killed the "hardened hearts."

I doubt Christ would have called his followers to armed conflict if they couldn't get someone to convert. What type of message would He than protray.

And in saying "Armed Resistance is close" than it can logicaly be infered that is a threat of armed resistance because you are saying that it is "nearly" the time for conflict.

[Chris Zewe]

Wasn't there some nonsense in the New Testament about turning the other cheek? If any of you have ever read the Wheel of Time, to be a good Christian it seems to me like you need to be a Tinker...

[IcePrincessKRS]

No, there is no nonsense in the Bible.

[Chris Zewe]

Considering that this topic is about armed resistance due to abortion (I think), it would appear to be nonsense in the minds of those who agree with the topic...

[IcePrincessKRS]

So you think abortion should be allowed? What about your "harm none" belief???

[Chris Zewe]

See, this is where my long-held personal beliefs conflict with my religious ones... Since I can't really convince myself one way or the other, I just shrug it off with "Unborn babies can't think". Thus, I don't consider them to be fully alive. And if parents want an abortion but can't get one, there's a good chance that the child will lead an unhappy life.

[mmmerf]

[quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='Jul 23 2004, 01:12 PM']
And you really think the individual Bishops are going to enforce it?? No, they are not. Why? Because they seem to think they can do whatever they want without recourse.

[/quote]
Ahem.

My bishop has stood on difficult issues before. I don't think he's been confronted directly with this one, as in Canada we have a different system of government than in the states.

BUT EVEN IF HE DIDN'T, I would still recognize and respect his office, and if he put this issue back on the consciences of those concerned, I would accept his decision, and direct my questions to him rather than stepping outside the heirarchy for decisions based on faith and morals.

Maybe, just maybe our bishops would be more inclined to act if they felt more catholics would support them when they did. My bishop banned general absolution after it had been the norm for 30 years, and nearly got run out of town for it. So I'm ready to accept what he has to offer and support him because I know he WILL make the right choices.