ironmonk Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 GO BACK TO POST ONE. TAKE EVERYTHING POSTED INTO ACCOUNT. IT IS JUSTIFIABLE IF ALL CRITERIA ARE MET ACCORDING TO THE Church. pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 It could be seen as justifiable and I sort of agree, but not something I'd personally support unless the Pope said we had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 notice he said CLOSE, not that it is now necessary. this is a wake-up call. continue and step up the peaceful resistance. there should be marches and protests making headlines every day. pro-abort politicians should get harassed with constant phone calls, emails, and letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I think by harassed you mean 'persistently and constantly reminded' dont you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 yeah. harassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Jul 22 2004, 07:16 PM'] GO BACK TO POST ONE. TAKE EVERYTHING POSTED INTO ACCOUNT. IT IS JUSTIFIABLE IF ALL CRITERIA ARE MET ACCORDING TO THE Church. pay attention. [/quote] I wouldn’t call it “close” until at least some Bishops (or parts to some other legitimate authority) start talking about picking up arms. I agree we need to be more active in this fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 The condition of the country is close to the conditions the Catechism says deserve armed resistance. very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I don't think we should be going on any Crusades for the Church until the Pope commands it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I would say it is not by the simple fact that the Pope and Bishops have not been talking about it. The only one that I would say is 100% for sure is number one. The rest I am not so sure. No disrespect intended towards ironmonk and Aloysius. I love you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 awwww :wub: The Pope and Bishops don't need to talk about it for us to notice that the conditions are close to being met. We're not talking about actually starting a war now. We're talking about the growing case that would make a just cause for a war and how it's dangerously close to being a just cause for war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 I'm not disagreeing but I dont think people should talk war. Its contrary to the CCC (we should be opposed to war) and we shouldn't be saying its getting close unless the Magesterium says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conservativecatholic Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Ironmonk: I absolutely agree! The lives of millions are at stake. If Pro-Lifers do not get their act together soon, millions and possibly a billion babies will be murdered in the next 20 years. [b]JOIN THE ABORTION ROSARY MARCHES![/b] They truly work! Did you know that an abortion clinic here in Houston planted rose bushes outside the gates to muffle the Catholic Rosary recitations? Guess what! The roses keep on dying. Our Loving Father does not want beautiful flowers to bloom on evil soil! I have witnessed many mothers turn away from the abortion clinic's doors because of the Catholics reciting the Rosary! Everyone can help! May God Bless through The Immaculate Heart of Mary! -conservativecatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 that's absurd. we shouldn't talk about it until the Magisterium says we should talk about it? "we should be opposed to war" is not exactly what it says, it says we should work for the avoidance of war. which is exactly the warning we're giving: unless we can stop this evil, war will be justified. so work to stop this evil because that is working towards the avoidance of war. we're not sittin around WANTING these conditions to be met, we're discussing how we should make them meet these conditions less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted July 23, 2004 Author Share Posted July 23, 2004 [quote name='crusader1234' date='Jul 22 2004, 10:39 PM'] I'm not disagreeing but I dont think people should talk war. Its contrary to the CCC (we should be opposed to war) and we shouldn't be saying its getting close unless the Magesterium says so. [/quote] The CCC is not opposed to war. The Pope is not a pacifist. The Church is for Peace, sometimes to keep the peace, it takes war. The Church does not say go to war, or says it's getting close. I think you are missing the point. The criteria for a just war is close to getting met. We are to fight for truth. We can fight through prayer, fasting, and marching. We can also fight through arms.... as a last resort. Do you think the Catholic Church opposed the civil war? No. This country was for slavery at the time, the Church was against slavery because of race. (The Church is not against indentured servants) This is the same senario... but this time the stakes are graver... we're not talking about freedom to do as we wish... we talking about the right to life.... If it's ok to go to war over slavery, your beaver dam right to go to war over millions of innocent lives... 45,500,000 babies dead in the last 30 years.... Do we wait until 90,000,000 are killed by being torn apart? No. hmmm... 580,000 lives... to give freedom to people to do as they wish. How many lives is it worth to save the next 45,000,000 of the unborn? I would give my life. Even if 5,000,000 people died in saving the lives of 45,000,000 babies, then it's totally worth it. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few... according to the Word of God. As when the Holy Spirit spoke through the head rabbi... "It is better that one innocent man parish than the whole of Isreal". If people don't want blood to be shed, then get out and preach until you can't preach no more, we must get EVERY abortion politician out of office. [b]Luke 12:51 [/b][color=red]Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. [/color] [b]52 [/b][color=red]From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; [/color] [b]53 [/b][color=red]a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." [/color] Preach the truth. Save the unborn. Stand up and speak out to all those you know... urge them to do the same. No abortionist may enter my house. I have lost friends over this. The murder of the unborn must stop. If Catholics were Catholic this would not have ever gotten this bad. We need to pray, fast, stand up. Speak out. Take to the streets, and bring the cities to a standstill until abortion is ended. If that does not work, and all other measures are exhausted and the criteria is met, then we must take up arms and save the lives of the innocent. God Bless. ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 And can you stop abortion without killing? Yes you can address the roots causes, something killing won't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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