Something Biblical And Scientific To Rebut The Big Bang Theory

[kujo]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1533226' date='May 19 2008, 01:44 AM']Yes, it is entirely possible! I'm not saying its the truth mind you, but it is entirely possible, which is why you need the holy spirit helping you understand scripture.

Get his Kujo, I believed in the whole Theistic evolution thing at one point. Did you know that? What changed, God changed my heart, and it was little things, like Kent Holvind's videos that actually nursed me back to spiritual health!

I can't really go back to believe billions of years, when I see what people will use it for, and it is totally against what the spirit has testified to me through the Bible! I guess that means I must have a different spirit than everybody else here has though!

On the Cliche thing, that is a horrible cliche, and I would never use that.[/quote]

[sarcasm]I'm surprised that you're not blaming this all on the Rothchilds!!![/sarcasm]

Anyway, I think that just because others use this theory to try and disprove God's sovereignty doesn't mean it doesn't have some value. Again, we're just describing the [i]how[/i] which ultimately leads us to the [b]who[/b]...

And we both know Who that is.

As for the cliche, it is what it is.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1533205' date='May 19 2008, 05:25 AM']Well, the biology text books show how embryos go from one stage to another, showing the 'evolutionary path' of human beings (Geez whiz, don't you think a God who created life would make all life develop in similar ways), which an Abortionist can say, hey, its not even human until such and such date![/quote]
Biology textbooks show how an embryo develops over time, yes, but they don't show evolution. The genetics of the baby aren't changed during this development in utero. I, for one, find it absolutely amazing to see the stages of fetal development. The argument people use against the fetus not being a person usually pertains to whether s/he could survive outside the womb at that stage. While I disagree with this reasoning, it has nothing to do with evolution.

Edited for grammar

Edited May 19, 2008 by Archaeology cat

[Farsight one]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1533226' date='May 19 2008, 12:44 AM']like Kent Holvind's videos that actually nursed me back to spiritual health![/quote]
Have you read anything I've said about Hovind? He's a fraud and a liar and he's been absolutely proven so time and time again - even through personal research of former fans. If anything, he is making you spiritually ill.

And do you realize you're spelling his name wrong?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532649' date='May 19 2008, 12:55 AM']One, Eugenicists use Evolution to say, these people are less fit, because that family has a lot of thieves, who are always out of work, lets make sure they don't breed because they are less fit.

Second, New Age Eugenicists will say, we have to make sure this baby is doesn't have that genetic disease, so lets change it in the womb. We're helping that infant.

It gives people a lot of power over life, power only God should have. The fact people believe in Evolution gives some abortion doctors the ability to murder people in the womb, because that embryo isn't human yet![/quote]

As other people have pointed out, the theory of evolution hasn't led to eugenics and foetal development is not the same as evolution.

It would also be interesting to note here that anybody who tries to use the theory of evolution in support of eugenics is actually [i]misusing[/i] the theory, as variety is much more beneficial to the human race from the perspective of survival alone than having one large mass of people with supposedly 'perfect' characteristics. So evolution doesn't teach people to exploit the less fit in order to survive - you're basing that on a very superficial and partial understanding of what the theory means.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1533205' date='May 18 2008, 11:25 PM']Well, the biology text books show how embryos go from one stage to another, showing the 'evolutionary path' of human beings (Geez whiz, don't you think a God who created life would make all life develop in similar ways), which an Abortionist can say, hey, its not even human until such and such date![/quote]So the abortionist is wrong. That has nothing to do with the theory of evolution.

[dairygirl4u2c]

as kujo said, it was a cliche, a figure of speech. i thought it more analogous than not. you have valid points for why you think it's not valid, but i disagree that it can't be used. i disagree that i was twisting the scripture, given that i recognize the limits of how it's used etc, and now that you understand how i used it, i would think you wouldn't think me twisting it, but if you continue to think that, that's a reasonable take too.
*insert various other disclaimers*

i defy you to show where i twisted scripture's before. you've said i was doing it again, and if that's the case that you think i did it before.... then the only one twisting them is you.

Edited May 19, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1532295' date='May 18 2008, 01:10 PM']I'm not going to get into a debate with you about creationism vs evolution, but I will say that your theology here is extremely dangerous to the Catholic Church, and your immortal soul. You equated the natural sciences with the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit. They most certainly do not compare. The former is based solely on current human observation, while the latter is based on the unchangeable truths revealed by God. Your philosophy/theology sounds like something from the Enlightenment, and that is very, very hazardous to your soul. I will pray for you, my friend.[/quote]
No its not, its perfectly Catholic - He is not stating that science is one of "THE 7 Gifts of the Holy Spirit", but like all good gifts is part of God's Creation. There is only one Truth, and using our minds to study Creation is using the intelligence God gave us.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1534160' date='May 19 2008, 08:54 PM']No its not, its perfectly Catholic - He is not stating that science is one of "THE 7 Gifts of the Holy Spirit", but like all good gifts is part of God's Creation. There is only one Truth, and using our minds to study Creation is using the intelligence God gave us.[/quote]

What if you don't trust your own intelligence?

I'm dumb compared to God, and I've been tested to having the highest level of fluid reasoning that science can test a human being at!

[cmotherofpirl]

'JesusIsMySuperHero states'
One, Eugenicists use Evolution to say, these people are less fit, because that family has a lot of thieves, who are always out of work, lets make sure they don't breed because they are less fit.

Second, New Age Eugenicists will say, we have to make sure this baby is doesn't have that genetic disease, so lets change it in the womb. We're helping that infant.

[color="#0000FF"]Eugenics in not the topic we are discussing evolution.[/color]

It gives people a lot of power over life, power only God should have.
[color="#0000FF"]
Evolution is a theory and goves no power to anyone, it simply explains part of the process of God's Creation.[/color]


The fact people believe in Evolution gives some abortion doctors the ability to murder people in the womb, because that embryo isn't human yet!
[color="#4169E1"]Evolution says nothing about the humanity of an unborn baby.[/color]
There is a lot of evil that the belief of Evolution has been used for. Name one thing that the belief of Evolution has done to benefit mankind?

[color="#4169E1"]It explains something we already were doing for thousands of years - changing plants and animals for our own benefit.[/color]

Then name the benefits of Creationism. If I was created, and everything else was created, then everything is equally fit before God, and therefore we should do all we can to help each other, share with each other, as we are all one people under God!

[color="#4169E1"]Creationism creates a false dicotomy between faith and science which in reality does not exist. [/color]

This whole Evolution versus Creationism stuff don't jive. One says the more fit exploit the less fit to survive, and the other says those with ability should help those without ability to help each other. Two exclusive ideas and philosophies. So I reject the first, and let those who believe that nonsense continue to believe it, while standing tall and say, I will never accept that philosophy and beliefs.

[color="#4169E1"]Your right it doesn't. Creationism as commonly understood is based on a fallacy that science and faith are opposed. Plants and animals do compete to survive, but humans are neither and always have the ability to love one another and care for one another. You create difficulties where none exist by confusing too many concepts into one pretend amalgamation to which you then claim objections.[/color]

[color="#4169E1"]You then have the audacity to question our faith and judge us claiming an exclusive relationship to the Holy Spirit, as if you can confine the Trinity to yourself.
Budge, there is a log giving you difficulty, maybe you should consider removing it.[/color]

[dairygirl4u2c]

is JIMSH the same person as Budge was? Cmother's last post would make me think it, her last sentence.
they do share some interesting similarities now that i think about it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1534214' date='May 19 2008, 11:33 PM']is JIMSH the same person as Budge was? Cmother's last post would make me think it, her last sentence.
they do share some interesting similarities now that i think about it.[/quote]
Names may change but tactics and arguments remain the same...

[dairygirl4u2c]

i thought budge was a girl, and JIMSH was a guy? the confusion is augmented, by the fact that i always thought budge was a guy at first, and i continually made the same mistake even after being told he, i mean she was a girl.
i'm confused, but nothing new under the sun.

Edited May 20, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1534232' date='May 19 2008, 09:42 PM']Names may change but tactics and arguments remain the same...[/quote]

I know who Budge is, but I'm not Budge.

The fact I asked a girl on this message board to go out with me should be case enough to know that I am not Budge, unless, of course I turned Lesbian!

Edited May 20, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1534183' date='May 19 2008, 09:17 PM']'JesusIsMySuperHero states'
One, Eugenicists use Evolution to say, these people are less fit, because that family has a lot of thieves, who are always out of work, lets make sure they don't breed because they are less fit.

Second, New Age Eugenicists will say, we have to make sure this baby is doesn't have that genetic disease, so lets change it in the womb. We're helping that infant.

[color="#0000FF"]Eugenics in not the topic we are discussing evolution.[/color]

It gives people a lot of power over life, power only God should have.
[color="#0000FF"]
Evolution is a theory and goves no power to anyone, it simply explains part of the process of God's Creation.[/color]
The fact people believe in Evolution gives some abortion doctors the ability to murder people in the womb, because that embryo isn't human yet!
[color="#4169E1"]Evolution says nothing about the humanity of an unborn baby.[/color]
There is a lot of evil that the belief of Evolution has been used for. Name one thing that the belief of Evolution has done to benefit mankind?

[color="#4169E1"]It explains something we already were doing for thousands of years - changing plants and animals for our own benefit.[/color]

Then name the benefits of Creationism. If I was created, and everything else was created, then everything is equally fit before God, and therefore we should do all we can to help each other, share with each other, as we are all one people under God!

[color="#4169E1"]Creationism creates a false dicotomy between faith and science which in reality does not exist. [/color]

This whole Evolution versus Creationism stuff don't jive. One says the more fit exploit the less fit to survive, and the other says those with ability should help those without ability to help each other. Two exclusive ideas and philosophies. So I reject the first, and let those who believe that nonsense continue to believe it, while standing tall and say, I will never accept that philosophy and beliefs.

[color="#4169E1"]Your right it doesn't. Creationism as commonly understood is based on a fallacy that science and faith are opposed. Plants and animals do compete to survive, but humans are neither and always have the ability to love one another and care for one another. You create difficulties where none exist by confusing too many concepts into one pretend amalgamation to which you then claim objections.[/color]

[color="#4169E1"]You then have the audacity to question our faith and judge us claiming an exclusive relationship to the Holy Spirit, as if you can confine the Trinity to yourself.
Budge, there is a log giving you difficulty, maybe you should consider removing it.[/color][/quote]

I think KoC has a great relationship with the holy spirit. I think Picchick has a great relationship with the holy spirit. I think there are quite a few people here that have the holy spirit, so it's not exclusive. I think you're jealous that I can take 'irrational' stands on the basis of faith alone. Jealousy is not a gift from the spirit, and actually, when you read a bible, Jealousy of other people's gifts is considered unwise, and the works of a carnal minded person!

Considering you think I am Budge, it shows your spiritual discernment is really low. . .

If it is really low in that concern, hmmm, you might be wrong about a lot of things!

[Adrestia]

JIMSH,

Let's say, for sake of argument, that someone attempted to use Holy Scripture to defend their immoral behavior. How would that affect your view of Holy Scripture?

People who considered themselves "good Christians" used Holy Scripture to defend slavery in this country for generations! Many anti-Christian people and groups today still contend that Christianity is bad or wrong because of their misinterpretation of Holy Scripture.


The point that I am trying to make is that humans inject their own agendas when interpreting data. That does not affect the data. The Truth in Holy Scripture is not altered in any way by misinterpretation.


What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

First, let me point out that I am [i]not[/i] attempting to equate any scientific theory with Holy Scripture. Holy Scripture is a divinely inspired gift to us from the Almighty. The Bible contains everlasting truths.

Scientific theories are based on a limited understanding of observations and measurements. They, by themselves, have no intrinsic value - people choose how to view them. A Eugenicist may choose to say that "theory X" defends his evil stance. Does that make "theory X" evil?

----

I am a scientist because of God. My studies have only strengthened my faith. The more I learn about physics, biochemistry, molecular biology, cell biology, physiology and embryology, the more I know that God is real and active. If scientific knowledge is an island, the shoreline represents the unanswered questions. The larger the island, the larger the shoreline. The more we learn, the more we realize how little we know.

There are people who think that science can replace religion. They want to say that science disproves Holy Scripture. They are wrong, they are deceived. In reality, science can only be in harmony with God since God created everything.

"Good and upright is the LORD, who shows sinners the way, guides the humble rightly, and teaches the humble the way. (Psalm 25:8-9)"