Something Biblical And Scientific To Rebut The Big Bang Theory

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1532295' date='May 18 2008, 12:10 PM']I'm not going to get into a debate with you about creationism vs evolution, but I will say that your theology here is extremely dangerous to the Catholic Church, and your immortal soul. You equated the natural sciences with the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit. They most certainly do not compare. The former is based solely on current human observation, while the latter is based on the unchangeable truths revealed by God. Your philosophy/theology sounds like something from the Enlightenment, and that is very, very hazardous to your soul. I will pray for you, my friend.[/quote]
I most certainly did not equate them.

Have you ever heard of the term of "lie to children"(fyi - I've looked it up. It's not considered a sin, even though "lie" is in the name)? It's kind of like that. I was giving a simplistic and not completely true explanation, because that's the best way to do it.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532331' date='May 18 2008, 06:11 PM']Evolution is not fact. I think of it as science fiction, nothing more, nothing less. Nobody has ever proven it, as a result, its one man's word against another, because nobody has observed MACRO Evolution! Nobody has been back in time to see Beer created 8000 years ago, so that can't be proven either. Get it. You have people saying that because of this fossil and that fossil, evolution happened, which could be explained just as much by the flood 5000 years ago, as something dying millions of years ago. There is no proof of either, and so both are beliefs and it is one man's word against another.[/quote]
Microevolution has been observed, though, and other posters have commented that macroevolution is nothing more than a string of changes via microevolution.

Now, on to the age of the earth. It can be determined that the earth is older than 6000 years without ever mentioning evolution. And even if the flood could have created the fossils, it cannot account for the stratigraphy. Please note that I'm not saying the flood narrative is a complete fiction, but I also don't think there was a flood over the entire earth. What I think (and what is borne out by archaeology) is that there was a flood over what was the known world for Noah (most likely to be when the waters rushed over the Bosphorus).

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532331' date='May 18 2008, 06:11 PM']The fact none of you are standing against this, shows to me that you don't have the holy spirit, because you have been beguiled by lies. The Holy Spirit would have taught you by now that Evolution is not fact, but fiction, fiction that allows evil men to commit evil acts, using evolution as a justification![/quote]
I won't deny that evolution could be used by someone to justify evil actions, but evil acts have been committed in the name of medical research, too, and we don't see medicine as inherently evil. Those of us who see evolution as an affirmation of God's glory and His hand in creation aren't going to use evolution to justify evil actions.

You do not have to agree with evolution - that is fine. It is not required of anyone to believe it, but it is acceptable to believe it when you hold that evolution was the mechanism God used to create life. And an acceptance, or not, of evolution does not determine how "spirit-filled" a person is, so please do not say that those of us who accept evolution are lacking in the Holy Spirit.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532340' date='May 18 2008, 01:27 PM']I could post up all of what Kent Holvind posted on the internet too. It is just one man's word against another, and I would rather side with a man who loves God than a man who is lead away from a guy who hated the book of Genesis, Charles Darwin![/quote]
Hovind enjoys using the term "willfully ignorant" a lot. Your refusal to even listen to the opposing view is EXACTLY that. If the man loved God, he wouldn't openly lie to further his agenda. In fact, the man directly contradicts himself several times.

Here's Hovind contradicting himself: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6_o1GxgNMQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6_o1GxgNMQ[/url]
You can even ignore the narrator. It's pretty obvious that Hovind is being blatantly inconsistent.

And, no, it is not just one man's word against anothers. It is 99.98% of the scientific community against .02% of the scientific community. There are literally four times more historians who deny the existence of the holocaust than there are scientists who deny evolution. The same amount of scientists believe that the earth is flat!

Since you seem to think Darwin hated the bible(which I don't really see), how about a devoutly religious person. His name is Ken Miller. You should look him up.

Really, post a short video of his. Go right ahead. Just be prepared to listen to a rebuttal. Because I guarantee you will get one, and it won't just involve links to youtube videos.

BTW - the big bang was first posited by a Catholic priest. Not only that, but atheists originally REJECTED the idea because they thought it pointed to the existence of God.

Edited May 18, 2008 by Farsight one

[dairygirl4u2c]

farsight... you give me solace... cause i'd think there'd be more people trying to talk sense into JIMSH. maybe they've given up. maybe they don't care. probably the former. but you do give me solace, the sound of reason and faith in proper harmony.

Edited May 18, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

here is a comprehensive explanation of how old the earth is, with several methods....

[url="http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:OyD0zBzJcWkJ:www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html+%22how+old+is+the+earth&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a"]http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:OyD0z...lient=firefox-a[/url]
[url="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22how+old+is+the+earth&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a"]http://www.google.com/search?q=%22how+old+...lient=firefox-a[/url]

[Adrestia]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532331' date='May 18 2008, 12:11 PM']Evolution is not fact. I think of it as science fiction, nothing more, nothing less. Nobody has ever proven it, as a result, its one man's word against another, because nobody has observed MACRO Evolution! Nobody has been back in time to see Beer created 8000 years ago, so that can't be proven either. Get it. You have people saying that because of this fossil and that fossil, evolution happened, which could be explained just as much by the flood 5000 years ago, as something dying millions of years ago. There is no proof of either, and so both are beliefs and it is one man's word against another.

So, I don't take it as a matter of fact, and in fact, I see it as something that is a false hood, because I don't feel comfortable when I consider Evolution as a fact and not science fiction. I get this pit in my stomach when I think about it like that. It is a false teaching, and only Satan could have done it.

The fact none of you are standing against this, shows to me that you don't have the holy spirit, because you have been beguiled by lies. The Holy Spirit would have taught you by now that Evolution is not fact, but fiction, fiction that allows evil men to commit evil acts, using evolution as a justification!

At least, when I am before Jesus Christ, when he asks me of my stand, I can say - Lord, you said the morning and the evening where the first day, and the second day, and the third day, and the fourth day, and the fifth day, and the sixth day, so you taught me to stand on this truth, thank you, I praise you for your love to teach me these things.[/quote]
Nice soliloquy.

You previously wrote:

[quote](JesusIsMySuperHero @ May 17 2008, 10:46 PM)
I am angry at the evil of this philosophy and religion of evolution! I hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate), appreciate) it, and I oppose it, as there are some sickos who would use this teaching to justify the evil they are doing to other men, because the more fit should be able to abuse the less fit![/quote]

I then replied:

[quote](tgoldson @ May 18 2008, 12:30 AM)
What? I'm not following you.

Evolution happens over generations... there's no opportunity to abuse people that died many generations ago.[/quote]

Let me rephrase my question. How does the theory of evolution justify the abuse of the less fit?

[Alycin]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1532487' date='May 18 2008, 05:15 PM']farsight... you give me solace... cause i'd think there'd be more people trying to talk sense into JIMSH. maybe they've given up. maybe they don't care. probably the former. but you do give me solace, the sound of reason and faith in proper harmony.[/quote]


Honestly, I gave up before it even began. It's a case where I believe I can only help him through prayer, as obviously sound logic, science, and reason do nothing for him.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1532510' date='May 18 2008, 04:42 PM']Nice soliloquy.

You previously wrote:
I then replied:
Let me rephrase my question. How does the theory of evolution justify the abuse of the less fit?[/quote]

One, Eugenicists use Evolution to say, these people are less fit, because that family has a lot of thieves, who are always out of work, lets make sure they don't breed because they are less fit.

Second, New Age Eugenicists will say, we have to make sure this baby is doesn't have that genetic disease, so lets change it in the womb. We're helping that infant.

It gives people a lot of power over life, power only God should have.

The fact people believe in Evolution gives some abortion doctors the ability to murder people in the womb, because that embryo isn't human yet!

There is a lot of evil that the belief of Evolution has been used for. Name one thing that the belief of Evolution has done to benefit mankind?

Then name the benefits of Creationism. If I was created, and everything else was created, then everything is equally fit before God, and therefore we should do all we can to help each other, share with each other, as we are all one people under God!

This whole Evolution versus Creationism stuff don't jive. One says the more fit exploit the less fit to survive, and the other says those with ability should help those without ability to help each other. Two exclusive ideas and philosophies. So I reject the first, and let those who believe that nonsense continue to believe it, while standing tall and say, I will never accept that philosophy and beliefs.

Edited May 18, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1532511' date='May 18 2008, 04:42 PM']Honestly, I gave up before it even began. It's a case where I believe I can only help him through prayer, as obviously sound logic, science, and reason do nothing for him.[/quote]

fair enough. there's something to be said about shaking the dust (the ultra-handsome) from your shoes, as mentioned in the bible, too.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1533024' date='May 18 2008, 08:07 PM']fair enough. there's something to be said about shaking the dust (the ultra-handsome) (the ultra-handsome) from your shoes, as mentioned in the bible, too.[/quote]

Ummm,

That is so twisted out of context.

Jesus said, that you shake the dust (the ultra-handsome) off your shoes of those who Reject him and the Gospel. To my knowledge, I haven't rejected Jesus or the Gospel. And for that person they are damned, because he who believeth not shall be damned.

So, why are you twisting scripture again Diary?

[Adrestia]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532649' date='May 18 2008, 05:55 PM']One, Eugenicists use Evolution to say, these people are less fit, because that family has a lot of thieves, who are always out of work, lets make sure they don't breed because they are less fit.

Second, New Age Eugenicists will say, we have to make sure this baby is doesn't have that genetic disease, so lets change it in the womb. We're helping that infant.

It gives people a lot of power over life, power only God should have.

The fact people believe in Evolution gives some abortion doctors the ability to murder people in the womb, because that embryo isn't human yet![/quote]

We agree that Eugenics is evil. The Darwinian theory of evolution is only around 150 years old. Eugenics dates back much further. The fact that current Eugenicists try to use the theory of evolution does [i]not[/i] make them right or the theory wrong.

The theory of evolution certainly does [i]not[/i] deny that a human embryo is a human life. I don't know where you got that idea.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532649' date='May 18 2008, 05:55 PM']There is a lot of evil that the belief of Evolution has been used for. Name one thing that the belief of Evolution has done to benefit mankind?

Then name the benefits of Creationism. If I was created, and everything else was created, then everything is equally fit before God, and therefore we should do all we can to help each other, share with each other, as we are all one people under God!

This whole Evolution versus Creationism stuff don't jive. One says the more fit exploit the less fit to survive, and the other says those with ability should help those without ability to help each other. Two exclusive ideas and philosophies. So I reject the first, and let those who believe that nonsense continue to believe it, while standing tall and say, I will never accept that philosophy and beliefs.[/quote]The theory of evolution does not say that the more fit exploit the less fit! I can see how this misunderstanding could lead to the evil that you describe, but it's not true.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1533175' date='May 18 2008, 10:29 PM']We agree that Eugenics is evil. The Darwinian theory of evolution is only around 150 years old. Eugenics dates back much further. The fact that current Eugenicists try to use the theory of evolution does [i]not[/i] make them right or the theory wrong.

The theory of evolution certainly does [i]not[/i] deny that a human embryo is a human life. I don't know where you got that idea.

The theory of evolution does not say that the more fit exploit the less fit! I can see how this misunderstanding could lead to the evil that you describe, but it's not true.[/quote]

Well, the biology text books show how embryos go from one stage to another, showing the 'evolutionary path' of human beings (Geez whiz, don't you think a God who created life would make all life develop in similar ways), which an Abortionist can say, hey, its not even human until such and such date!

[kujo]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1533109' date='May 18 2008, 11:05 PM']Ummm,

That is so twisted out of context.

Jesus said, that you shake the dust (the ultra-handsome) (the ultra-handsome) off your shoes of those who Reject him and the Gospel. To my knowledge, I haven't rejected Jesus or the Gospel. And for that person they are damned, because he who believeth not shall be damned.

So, why are you twisting scripture again Diary?[/quote]

I think your defensiveness is making it hard for you to see that Dairy was using "shake the d.ust from your shoes" as a cliche.

[kujo]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532333' date='May 18 2008, 02:15 PM']Yes, there are plenty of places where they did that, and all language in the bible is both literal and metaphors.

That is why you need the holy spirit to tell the difference between truth and lies. Evolution is a lie, and I will never ever believe it.

God created the earth in 6 days is the truth, and I will always believe it.

There are others who don't listen or have the spirit, who will say evil things about God's creation.[/quote]

So, is it possible that the "days" mentioned in the creation account is a literary device?

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='kujo' post='1533220' date='May 18 2008, 11:36 PM']So, is it possible that the "days" mentioned in the creation account is a literary device?[/quote]

Yes, it is entirely possible! I'm not saying its the truth mind you, but it is entirely possible, which is why you need the holy spirit helping you understand scripture.

Get his Kujo, I believed in the whole Theistic evolution thing at one point. Did you know that? What changed, God changed my heart, and it was little things, like Kent Holvind's videos that actually nursed me back to spiritual health!

I can't really go back to believe billions of years, when I see what people will use it for, and it is totally against what the spirit has testified to me through the Bible! I guess that means I must have a different spirit than everybody else here has though!

On the Cliche thing, that is a horrible cliche, and I would never use that.

Edited May 19, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero