Something Biblical And Scientific To Rebut The Big Bang Theory

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532023' date='May 18 2008, 12:46 AM']Does it not say, the morning and the evening are the first day, the second day, the third day, the fourth day, the fifth day, the sixth day, the seventh day?

What is a morning and evening but 24 hours. God is not the author of confusion. Anybody saying it is anything but a 24 hour day is causing the confusion, and therefore, is trying to convince people the truth is a lie and a lie is the truth. God says he will throw anybody who loveth and maketh a lie into the firey lake!

I hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate), appreciate) the evil of this debate. God didn't create over billions of years. He could have, I will be the first to admit he could, because what can God not do. But he didn't!

[color="#0000FF"]Were you there? Since the sun wasn't created until the fourth day how do you know the first day was a 24 hour period? If God is ALmighty why did He take any time at all to to the universe, why wasn't it instantaneous?[/color]
Anybody who thinks that its okay to believe in Evolution and believe in God, I ask what Joshua asked the Israelites, whom will you serve, the gods of the people of this land or God, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!

You can't have both. They are mutually exclusive. You believe a lie! I will not accept any lies, and I can see through them easily. I can't wait for Jesus to come back and say, I created everything in 6 days, and this creation is only 6000 years old!

[color="#0000FF"]They are certainly not mutually exclusive except in your mind. THe Bible doesn't say the world is 6000 years old that was invented by a protestant preacher in the 1800's. And you accuse us of believing lies? We certainly don't believe in that invention.[/color]
I am not angry at you Alycin, but I am angry at the evil of this philosophy and religion of evolution! I hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate), appreciate) it, and I oppose it, as there are some sickos who would use this teaching to justify the evil they are doing to other men, because the more fit should be able to abuse the less fit![/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Evolution is not a religion but a scientific theory. People can use anything to justify evil.[/color]

[CatherineM]

JIMSH-I would never be so presumptuous to tell God how long a day is to him. I know how long a day is to me, but God is infinite. When the Holy Spirit put the inspiration for Genesis into the mind of an ancient writer, it could simply be he sent the images to him in dreams over 7 days. You need to study who wrote the bible, when, in what literary style, and for which audience.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532023' date='May 17 2008, 11:46 PM']Does it not say, the morning and the evening are the first day, the second day, the third day, the fourth day, the fifth day, the sixth day, the seventh day?[/quote]It's non-literal in meaning. You know - poetic? What we are supposed to gather from the creation stories(yes, stories, plural) is that God created us and that he is amazing for it.

[quote]God is not the author of confusion.[/quote]EXACTLY! God is not the author of confusion. But, every ounce of evidence we can see points to evolution. Is not making the world look like it's billions of years old and that creatures evolved when they really didn't the confusing thing?

[quote]...and this creation is only 6000 years old![/quote]So...beer pre-exists the universe, then?

Science(and literature, math, logic) is a gift from God. Science, in EVERY way, shape, and form, points to evolution and the big bang. To reject science so soundly is to reject the Gifts of God - of the Holy Spirit. You're supposed to use these gifts to help you understand His holy word (even the bible attests to this).

In rejecting these gifts and in baselessly calling them evil, you reject the Holy Spirit - mentioned in the bible as the only unforgivable offense!

There are two creation stories in the bible(sort of), and they CONTRADICT each other. Which one do you go by, and what is your justification for picking that one over the other? (me? I see it as God's way of making it clear to us that he doesn't want it taken literally)

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]To reject science so soundly is to reject the Gifts of God - of the Holy Spirit. You're supposed to use these gifts to help you understand His holy word (even the bible attests to this).[/quote]

[Adrestia]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532023' date='May 17 2008, 10:46 PM']You can't have both. They are mutually exclusive.[/quote]There is only One God! You are examining a dichotomy which does not exist. Everything that a scientist observes was created by God. God's creation serves to glorify Him! Any suggestion to the contrary is evil... and we all know who the source of is. Some scientists are deceived by the evil one. These deceived scientists will tell you that their discoveries argue against God. The fact that they are deceived does not invalidate their observations - only their interpretations.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1532023' date='May 17 2008, 10:46 PM']I am angry at the evil of this philosophy and religion of evolution! I hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) it, and I oppose it, as there are some sickos who would use this teaching to justify the evil they are doing to other men, because the more fit should be able to abuse the less fit![/quote]What? I'm not following you.

Evolution happens over generations... there's no opportunity to abuse people that died many generations ago.

[kujo]

JIMSH, do you believe that the authors of the Bible employed literary devices such as metaphors, analogies and symbology in order to convey the message of God?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1532093' date='May 18 2008, 05:43 AM']It's non-literal in meaning. You know - poetic? What we are supposed to gather from the creation stories(yes, stories, plural) is that God created us and that he is amazing for it.[/quote]
You beat me to it! I can believe in the truth of the creation narrative (that God created everything) without taking it literally. And unless I'm really off in my Hebrew (haven't studied it much lately), it doesn't say "In the beginning" (no definite article is used), but something more like "to begin with", much like the beginning of a story would start. I need to double-check on the Hebrew, though. Oh, and I'd also point out that there is absolutely no reason a day had to be 1 24-hour day, especially in light of both science and other passages that speak of a day being as a thousand years and vice versa to God.

ETA: I should add that there is Biblical precedent for seeing a narrative as containing truth without the event being actual, literal events in the parables. Somewhat different genre, but same principles.

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1532093' date='May 18 2008, 05:43 AM']Science(and literature, math, logic) is a gift from God. Science, in EVERY way, shape, and form, points to evolution and the big bang. To reject science so soundly is to reject the Gifts of God - of the Holy Spirit. You're supposed to use these gifts to help you understand His holy word (even the bible attests to this).

In rejecting these gifts and in baselessly calling them evil, you reject the Holy Spirit - mentioned in the bible as the only unforgivable offense![/quote]
While some [i]try [/i]to use science, literature, math, logic, etc. to somehow disprove God, this does not warrant an outright rejection of these fields. I always got so angry when people would tell me that studying science (even social sciences) would cause me to lose my faith, when my faith has only gotten stronger in seeing these things.

Edited May 18, 2008 by Archaeology cat

[kujo]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1532122' date='May 18 2008, 02:51 AM']You beat me to it! I can believe in the truth of the creation narrative (that God created everything) without taking it literally. And unless I'm really off in my Hebrew (haven't studied it much lately), it doesn't say "In the beginning" (no definite article is used), but something more like "to begin with", much like the beginning of a story would start. I need to double-check on the Hebrew, though. Oh, and I'd also point out that there is absolutely no reason a day had to be 1 24-hour day, especially in light of both science and other passages that speak of a day being as a thousand years and vice versa to God.[/quote]

I didn't know that. Very interesting. I kinda like "in the beginning," though. It's cool. It is [b]the[/b] beginning...and God is already on the scene. Anyway, good stuff.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1528162' date='May 14 2008, 09:36 PM']I like to think of Biology (and Logic, literature, math, other sciences, etc) to be the gifts of the holy spirit - things that the bible says that we should use. The bible is God's word. These gifts should be used to help one understand God's word. To reject geological and paleotological evidence for evolution is to reject the gifts of the Holy Spirit. It is prideful to refuse to trust in what an evolutionary biologist has to say about evolution, when they've spent their life studying it, and you haven't spent more than a couple days studying it. At least, that's how I view it.[/quote]
I'm not going to get into a debate with you about creationism vs evolution, but I will say that your theology here is extremely dangerous to the Catholic Church, and your immortal soul. You equated the natural sciences with the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit. They most certainly do not compare. The former is based solely on current human observation, while the latter is based on the unchangeable truths revealed by God. Your philosophy/theology sounds like something from the Enlightenment, and that is very, very hazardous to your soul. I will pray for you, my friend.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1532295' date='May 18 2008, 05:10 PM']I'm not going to get into a debate with you about creationism vs evolution, but I will say that your theology here is extremely dangerous to the Catholic Church, and your immortal soul. You equated the natural sciences with the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit. They most certainly do not compare. The former is based solely on current human observation, while the latter is based on the unchangeable truths revealed by God. Your philosophy/theology sounds like something from the Enlightenment, and that is very, very hazardous to your soul. I will pray for you, my friend.[/quote]
I can't speak for him, but I took his statement to be saying that science, etc. are gifts in that we use our God-given intellect to study and understand them, and to understand the world around us. Maybe I was just reading my opinion into what he wrote,

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1532116' date='May 18 2008, 12:30 AM']What? I'm not following you.

Evolution happens over generations... there's no opportunity to abuse people that died many generations ago.[/quote]

Evolution is not fact. I think of it as science fiction, nothing more, nothing less. Nobody has ever proven it, as a result, its one man's word against another, because nobody has observed MACRO Evolution! Nobody has been back in time to see Beer created 8000 years ago, so that can't be proven either. Get it. You have people saying that because of this fossil and that fossil, evolution happened, which could be explained just as much by the flood 5000 years ago, as something dying millions of years ago. There is no proof of either, and so both are beliefs and it is one man's word against another.

So, I don't take it as a matter of fact, and in fact, I see it as something that is a false hood, because I don't feel comfortable when I consider Evolution as a fact and not science fiction. I get this pit in my stomach when I think about it like that. It is a false teaching, and only Satan could have done it.

The fact none of you are standing against this, shows to me that you don't have the holy spirit, because you have been beguiled by lies. The Holy Spirit would have taught you by now that Evolution is not fact, but fiction, fiction that allows evil men to commit evil acts, using evolution as a justification!

At least, when I am before Jesus Christ, when he asks me of my stand, I can say - Lord, you said the morning and the evening where the first day, and the second day, and the third day, and the fourth day, and the fifth day, and the sixth day, so you taught me to stand on this truth, thank you, I praise you for your love to teach me these things.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='kujo' post='1532120' date='May 18 2008, 12:46 AM']JIMSH, do you believe that the authors of the Bible employed literary devices such as metaphors, analogies and symbology in order to convey the message of God?[/quote]
Yes, there are plenty of places where they did that, and all language in the bible is both literal and metaphors.

That is why you need the holy spirit to tell the difference between truth and lies. Evolution is a lie, and I will never ever believe it.

God created the earth in 6 days is the truth, and I will always believe it.

There are others who don't listen or have the spirit, who will say evil things about God's creation.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i'm sure you would have had a pit in your stomach, that the earth is the center of the universe too, and maybe that the earth is flat
and, cause that' what you think the bible says... or do you still think that? it's hard to tell with folks like you JIMSH. you are a stubborn and very foolish man, prone to the wims of your "gut speak". look it up, gut speak.

i feel overwhelmed by the sense that you are obstinately refusing to repent from your foolish beliefs, and sitting in God's seat casting out falsities of judgment. i think you know they are lies, yet you persist believing them, and trying to be sincere... that's what's so dangerous and sad.

you seem to think that it's not scientifically sound, so i would suggest you read up on dating things etc and get back with us. there's no way you can get past the stuff below:

look at chapter 6 and five, especially chapter six. there's chromosomal proof too, for evolution.
[url="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch05"]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch05[/url]


links for things on traisitional fossils

[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part2a.html"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part2a.html[/url]

[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/d2700.html"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/d2700.html[/url]

[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/[/url]

[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/[/url]

[url="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch05"]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch05[/url]

[url="http://news.softpedia.com/news/Top-10-Exti...ans-62131.shtml"]http://news.softpedia.com/news/Top-10-Exti...ans-62131.shtml[/url]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution[/url]

Edited May 18, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1532335' date='May 18 2008, 12:20 PM']i'm sure you would have had a pit in your stomach, that the earth is the center of the universe too, and maybe that the earth is flat
and, cause that' what you think the bible says... or do you still think that? it's hard to tell with folks like you JIMSH. you are a stubborn and very foolish man, prone to the wims of your "gut speak". look it up, gut speak.

i feel overwhelmed by the sense that you are obstinately refusing to repent from your foolish beliefs, and sitting in God's seat casting out falsities of judgment. i think you know they are lies, yet you persist believing them, and trying to be sincere... that's what's so dangerous and sad.

you seem to think that it's not scientifically sound, so i would suggest you read up on dating things etc and get back with us. there's no way you can get past the stuff below:

look at chapter 6 and five, especially chapter six. there's chromosomal proof too, for evolution.
[url="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch05"]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch05[/url]
links for things on traisitional fossils

[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part2a.html"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part2a.html[/url]

[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/d2700.html"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/d2700.html[/url]

[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/[/url]

[url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/[/url]

[url="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch05"]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch05[/url]

[url="http://news.softpedia.com/news/Top-10-Exti...ans-62131.shtml"]http://news.softpedia.com/news/Top-10-Exti...ans-62131.shtml[/url]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution[/url][/quote]

I could post up all of what Kent Holvind posted on the internet too. It is just one man's word against another, and I would rather side with a man who loves God than a man who is lead away from a guy who hated the book of Genesis, Charles Darwin!