Being Anti-gay Marriage = Against Minority Rights?

[Jesus_lol]

i agree with all the things Alycin is saying here, very well spoken, some things i was thinking but didn't know how to put to words.

and to Cmotherofpirl asking about what parts of that are bigoted, etc? really, i thought it would be obvious that saying pedophiles and gay people are the same is an uninformed statement supported by twisting unrelated statistics.

even if i am wrong, the perception of another person listening to that statement is what counts. and that is how it comes across. making sweeping genralizations and being blatantly insulting to entire groups of people is about the most effective way i can think of to get them to ignore you entirely.

Edited May 11, 2008 by Jesus_lol

[Alycin]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1524402' date='May 10 2008, 08:43 PM']making sweeping genralizations and being blatantly insulting to entire groups of people is about the [u][b]most effective way i can think of to get them to ignore you entirely.[/b][/u][/quote]


Exactly.

[Alycin]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1524393' date='May 10 2008, 08:36 PM']Crazy thing, Alycin, its legal in Canada! I don't approve of that, as it would be totally gross for me, a 34 year old to have sex with someone 20 years younger than me because of consent![/quote]

I knew the age of consent in Canada used to be 14, but I thought they changed it. I could be wrong. I think it's just as gross for someone who is 18 to sleep with someone 20 years older than them, though.

Easy answer. WAIT FOR MARRIAGE AND MARRY FOR LOVE. And have a Christ-centered marriage!

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1524407' date='May 10 2008, 07:46 PM']I knew the age of consent in Canada used to be 14, but I thought they changed it. I could be wrong. I think it's just as gross for someone who is 18 to sleep with someone 20 years older than them, though.

Easy answer. WAIT FOR MARRIAGE AND MARRY FOR LOVE. And have a Christ-centered marriage![/quote]

Awesome Advice, and advice that I shall take to the bank.

[Apotheoun]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html"][u]CDF Note on legal recognition of "homosexual unions"[/u][/url]

[CatherineM]

Bishop Henry in Calgary made that point that the pro-gay marriage people were allowed their free speech, but those against it were not. It's hardly totalitarian, but they seem to want to bend over backwards to be perfectly accepting of everyone and everything, except devout Christians.

The age of consent up here was recently changed to 16, but if someone is over 16 but under 18, they can't be touched by a person in a position of authority like a teacher or coach, family relationship like step father, or exploitive like prostitution.

[carrdero]

[quote]JesusIsMySuperhero writes: Same Sex is not godly, but God gives us the right to follow or not to follow him.[/quote] I was not aware that GOD was heterosexual.

Edited May 11, 2008 by carrdero

[farglefeezlebut]

God isn't anything-sexual. He's beyond all that.

God is generous. Sex is only generous if it is open to life.

[the 13th papist]

read what the church has written, this one is on the exact topic:

[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congrega...-unions_en.html[/url]

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1524388' date='May 10 2008, 08:30 PM']I think you may have missed my point entirely. I was in no way stating that consent make something moral. I was saying that comparing a crime where there is a completely innocent, unwilling victim to the poor choices of two people is a terrible "tactic" often used by Christians that makes us lose credibility.[/quote]


[quote name='Alycin' post='1524391' date='May 10 2008, 08:33 PM']There is a reason that we have laws that say people under the age of 18 cannot consent to sex, or sexual acts in general. And I have no idea where you would think I would be for the legalization of something like that... again, I think you misread my post in a way where I wonder if you didn't make things up completely in your head. lol.[/quote]

As I stated in my original post, I was trying to carry a point to one logical, albeit extreme, conclusion.

And I have a very big problem with the way "consent" is being thrown around as an excuse to justify things in today's society.

OK, here's another example regarding "consent". Should we include drug dealers as minorities worthy of rights? Should we have "drug dealer pride" parades? After all, this is just a business transaction between two consenting people, right?

[Alycin]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1525053' date='May 11 2008, 02:57 PM']As I stated in my original post, I was trying to carry a point to one logical, albeit extreme, conclusion.

And I have a very big problem with the way "consent" is being thrown around as an excuse to justify things in today's society.

OK, here's another example regarding "consent". Should we include drug dealers as minorities worthy of rights? Should we have "drug dealer pride" parades? After all, this is just a business transaction between two consenting people, right?[/quote]


I'm not using it to justify ANYTHING. I'm unsure of how to make what I'm saying any more clear to you. I'm sorry if at this time you fail to grasp what I'm saying. You are asking me questions that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the point I'm trying to make and therefore do a terrible job of conveying your understanding, if any, of what I was saying.


Using your logic:

Mormons are the same as Catholics. No? They're both religions! They must be the same because they can be placed into the same wide category of religion! One can only be as bad or as good as the other. The end.

See the flaw there?

[KnightofChrist]

[url="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1331584/posts"]Study shows link between homosexuality and pedophilia[/url]

[url="http://americansfortruth.com/news/cliff-kincaid-homosexuality-pedophilia.html"]Homosexuality & Pedophilia[/url]

[url="http://www.afajournal.org/archives/23060000011.asp"]Homosexuality and child molestation: the link, the likelihood, the lasting effects[/url]

[Alycin]

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

Let's pretend for a second that I am a gay adult male that doesn't believe in God, but, I'm open to being convinced by scientific evidence or psychological studies from unbiased sources. Or, heck, even scientific evidence or psychological studies from only SLIGHTLY biased sources.

None of the three links you provided qualify.

Not even close.

[Alycin]

"Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). [b][u]The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases[/u][/b] (Jenny et al., 1994).

Science cannot prove a negative. Thus, these studies do not prove that homosexual or bisexual males are no more likely than heterosexual males to molest children. However, each of them failed to prove the alternative hypothesis that homosexual males are more likely than heterosexual men to molest children or to be sexually attracted to children or adolescents.

This [u][b]well known lack of a linkage between homosexuality and child molestation[/b][/u] accounts for why relatively little research has directly addressed the issue. Proving something we already know simply isn't a priority. Indeed, a commentary that accompanied publication of the 1994 study by Jenny et al. in [i]Pediatrics[/i] noted that debates about gay people as molesters "have little to do with everyday child abuse" and lamented that they distract lawmakers and the public from dealing with the real problem of children's sexual mistreatment (Krugman, 1994).

Some conservative groups have argued that scientific research strongly supports their claims that homosexuality and pedophilia are linked. [size=4]The Family Research Council has produced what is perhaps the most extensive attempt to document this claim. It is an article by Timothy J. Dailey titled Homosexuality and Child Abuse.[/size] (<-- that's one of YOUR links.)

With 76 footnotes, many of them referring to papers in scientific journals, it appears at first glance to be a thorough and scholarly discussion of the issue. On further examination, however, its central argument – that "the evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls" – doesn't hold up.

In the following section, the main sources cited by Dailey and the FRC to support their claim are reviewed. The papers are listed in the same order in which they are first cited by the FRC article."


[url="http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html"]Link[/url], to avoid an unnecessarily long post.


"In summary, [u][b]the scientific sources cited by the FRC report do not support their argument.[/b][/u] Most of the studies they referenced did not even assess the sexual orientation of abusers. [b][u]Two studies explicitly concluded that sexual orientation and child molestation are unrelated.[/u][/b] Notably, the FRC failed to cite the 1978 study by Groth and Birnbaum, which also contradicted their argument. Only one study (Erickson et al., 1988) might be interpreted as supporting the FRC argument, and it [u][b]failed to detail its measurement procedures[/b][/u] and did not differentiate bisexual from homosexual offenders."

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1525159' date='May 11 2008, 04:00 PM']Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

Let's pretend for a second that I am a gay adult male that doesn't believe in God, but, I'm open to being convinced by scientific evidence or psychological studies from unbiased sources. Or, heck, even scientific evidence or psychological studies from only SLIGHTLY biased sources.

None of the three links you provided qualify.

Not even close.[/quote]

That really doesn't disprove anything now does it, no, it is moving the target, the next would be well that is only the opinion of those studies or study. But yours is a quite illrelevant argument coming from a christian. Your not a male, your not homosexual, and you do believe in God.

What does a gay male atheist base his mortality on anyway? If there be no God, there is no right or wrong, no good or evil.

Edited May 11, 2008 by KnightofChrist