Getting To Know Mccain

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1562121' date='Jun 7 2008, 02:21 AM']of hte 125 abortion issues presented to mccain, he voted 122 or so prolife. i think it was lounge who pointed out that there's still three that he didn't vote for. to most people, indicative of what he thinks about mccain... blinded to how much prolife he really is as no one in their right mind could say that he's not prolife after hearing that.
maybe you define prolife as all or nothing, but at any rate, it's closer to the real deal than obama.[/quote]
The only thing that McCain can point to that resembles pro-life life support is his voting record. Like I said, the political reality is, a vote in support of or against someone else's legislation:
1 - is the result to deal-making.
2 - not as strong an indicator of a candidate's convictions as [i]his own legislation[/i], as well as [i]his affiliations[/i].

As I stated in my post above ([url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=80015&view=findpost&p=1560792"]#83[/url]), John McCain worked harder than anyone to prevent pro-life legislation from even reaching the floor for a vote! When he finally had to vote on a piece of pro-life legislation, he did so only to ensure the support of "[url="http://web.archive.org/web/20060926070641/http://www.nrlc.org/news/2000/NRL02/doug.html"]otherwise intelligent people who say that that's the only issue that will determine their vote[/url]" (those are John McCain's own words).

I don't demand that a candidate be "all or nothing" when they say that they are pro-life. But I do expect that a pro-life candidate, at the very least, not:
* accept the endorsement of pro-choice groups, as McCain has twice.
* have a history of attacking right to life groups. NRTLC even stated that McCain "has posed a threat to future advances by the pro-life movement."
* sought to be the running mate of a major pro-choice presidential candidate.
* written legislation banning pro-life groups from actively supporting pro-life candidates who are seeking office. Thus, RTL has had to fight McCain's anti-life and anti-free speech legislation in court. This is not what I expect from a politician who then decides to run as pro-life candidate.

Edited June 7, 2008 by Lounge Daddy

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1562121' date='Jun 7 2008, 03:21 AM']lounge has been shown over and over again that mccain is prolife, at least substantiallly more than obama. he's just using this to not have to deal with the prospect taht he's wrong for voting for a third party adn in effect voting for obama.[/quote]

There is no "in effect voting for Obama." The only way to vote for Obama is by voting for Obama. The only way to vote for McCain is by voting for McCain. The only way to vote for a third-party candidate is by voting for the third-party candidate.

And as I've tried to point out before, Ron Paul is going to steal votes from both Obama and McCain. He appeals to both sides because his approach to politics is different from every other candidate whose been in the races. He's a lot more than the pro-life alternative.

I think Lounge makes some pretty good points against McCain's voting record. When National Right to Life considers him a threat to the pro-life movement, what more do you need?

Edited June 11, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[kenrockthefirst]

[img]http://www.uclick.com/feature/08/06/12/ta080612.gif[/img]

Four more years! Four more years!

Edited June 12, 2008 by kenrockthefirst

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1568502' date='Jun 11 2008, 03:48 PM']There is no "in effect voting for Obama." The only way to vote for Obama is by voting for Obama. The only way to vote for McCain is by voting for McCain. The only way to vote for a third-party candidate is by voting for the third-party candidate.

And as I've tried to point out before, Ron Paul is going to steal votes from both Obama and McCain. He appeals to both sides because his approach to politics is different from every other candidate whose been in the races. He's a lot more than the pro-life alternative.[/quote]

How can Ron Paul steal votes if he isn't running as a candidate? Do you mean write-ins?

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' post='1586674' date='Jun 29 2008, 08:53 PM']How can Ron Paul steal votes if he isn't running as a candidate? Do you mean write-ins?[/quote]
I just figured that he meant to say Bob Barr.

[kenrockthefirst]

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080702/pl_politico/17355"]Schmidt takes control of day-to-day operation[/url]

Further evidence that McSame represents a continuation of Bush:

[i]McCain sources say Schmidt, who ran Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's reelection campaign [b]and was a top communications aide in Bush-Cheney '04[/b]...[/i]

[i]Helping Schmidt drive the new daily message will be Matt McDonald, also a veteran of the Schwarzenegger campaign [b]and Bush-Cheney reelection effort[/b]...[/i]

[i]Also coming on board is Taylor Griffin, [b]a former White House and Treasury spokesman[/b]...[/i]

[i]Perhaps most important for the campaign's image is the addition of Greg Jenkins, [b]a veteran advance man who ran presidential advance in the Bush White House[/b]. Jenkins, [b]also an aide on Bush's 2000 campaign[/b]...[/i]

[Alycin]

In all honesty I think McCain would do much better if he DISTANCED himself from the man that most of the country dislikes.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1589611' date='Jul 2 2008, 08:59 PM']In all honesty I think McCain would do much better if he DISTANCED himself from the man that most of the country dislikes.[/quote]
Précisément.

[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/us/politics/03manage.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin"]McCain Orders Shake-Up of His Campaign[/url]

[i]The elevation of Steve Schmidt — [b]who worked closely with Karl Rove[/b]...[/i]
You'd think that McCain would have trouble working with a guy who worked with a guy who so badly slimed McSame in 2000 -- you know, the whole "black baby" thing?

[i]The move of Mr. Schmidt is the latest sign [b]of increasing influence of veterans of Mr. Rove’s shop in the McCain operation[/b]. Nicolle Wallace, [b]communications director for Mr. Bush in the 2004 campaign (and in his White House)[/b]...[/i]

[i]Greg Jenkins, [b]another veteran of Mr. Rove’s operation[/b] who is a former Fox News producer [b]and director of presidential advance in the Bush White House[/b]...[/i]

[i]Mr. Rove, who was Mr. Bush’s senior political adviser until he left the White House last year, was said by Mr. McCain’s advisers to have offered advice in recent days to Mr. Schmidt and others on how to get Mr. McCain’s campaign on track, but has stayed mostly on the periphery. Mr. Rove is aware, his associates said, that his own legacy could be helped should Mr. McCain win the presidency.[/i]

Can you say Bush's third term?

[Apotheoun]

As sad as it is to say, if I had to choose between a Bush third term and an Obama first term I would take the former. But that is not even an option in the upcoming general election.

Ultimately, I will have to find a prolife third party candidate to vote for in the fall, because I do not support either McCain or Obama.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1590240' date='Jul 3 2008, 01:26 PM']As sad as it is to say, if I had to choose between a Bush third term and an Obama first term I would take the former. But that is not even an option in the upcoming general election.

Ultimately, I will have to find a prolife third party candidate to vote for in the fall, because I do not support either McCain or Obama.[/quote]
Thank you! The point is that McSame clearly does not represent "the only viable option for Catholics."

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1590253' date='Jul 3 2008, 12:37 PM']Thank you! The point is that McSame clearly does not represent "the only viable option for Catholics."[/quote]
On that we agree.

[Niccolò]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1590253' date='Jul 3 2008, 02:37 PM']Thank you! The point is that McSame clearly does not represent "the only viable option for Catholics."[/quote]

If by "viable" you mean the only candidate capable of winning, then McCain really is the only candidate for Catholics to support. Voting third party is meant to send a message; it's definitely an option, though I disagree with it.

[Apotheoun]

I took the word "viable" in his post to mean "morally acceptable."

[Niccolò]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1595419' date='Jul 8 2008, 07:19 PM']I took the word "viable" in his post to mean "morally acceptable."[/quote]

Then I don't disagree.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1595419' date='Jul 8 2008, 07:19 PM']I took the word "viable" in his post to mean "morally acceptable."[/quote]
Yes, so did I.

And neither major candidate is "morally acceptable" as I see it. I just cannot bring myself to pull the lever either major party candidate; and the sad thing is, the reasons for not voting for Obama are pretty much the same as the reasons for not voting for McCain.