Diocesan Priesthood Discernment Help

[LivingStone]

Here's the situation: I'm discerning the priesthood (in a pretheologate program) and feel a pretty strong calling towards the diocesan priesthood (as opposed to the religious life). With this assumed, I have a few questions that are in need of answering. I was simply curious as to your take on this issue (especially if you are clergy).

The archdiocese that I grew up in isn't entirely ideal: The lay people are generally liberal and progressive across the board. The cardinal is amazing and is slowly fixing a broken diocese. Many of the priests (holy as they are) seem progressive which makes me very uneasy at times (meaning that I at one time or another wonder whether Mass was valid...).

A neighboring diocese (lay and priests) is much more conservative and traditional in terms of standing in line with the Holy Father.

1st Question: Am I even allowed to discern two different dioceses or do I become a seminarian for the diocese I grew up in?

2nd Question: If I can discern, can I choose one diocese over another because of its faithfulness to the Holy Father? Am I simply going where I would be comfortable and losing the missionary mindset I must have? Should I go I would be comfortable so I don't "burn out" in a parish in the first two years?

3rd Question: Ok. This is where it could get complicated: The 'progressive' archdiocese sends their seminarians to a seminary that is known for forming the "progressive" priests, where the traditional diocese sends their seminarians to the better seminaries. One person told me that my first priority right now is my own soul and my own formation, and only when I am fully formed should I lead a parish (forming other's souls). Does that mean that for the sake of formation, I am allowed to discern one diocese over another?

Thanks everyone. I have discussed this with many people, but your input would be invaluable. Let me know if I should repose this in the Catholic Q&A topic board (so clergy can respond). Thanks again. God bless. (pray for me if you can )

[CatherineM]

One of my wisest and most favorite pastors told me how he choose to end up in Oklahoma after being raised in Chicago. His older brother was a priest in Chicago, and was 3rd or 4th assistant pastor. He asked his bishop where he could go that really needed priests. He was told somewhere out west, and picked Oklahoma. The Bishop in Oklahoma at the time let him do his ordination in Dubuque because that's where his grandparents and extended family lived, and he didn't want them having to travel.

Just remember that the conservativeness or progressiveness of a diocese starts at the top, and that position changes. We are just now this year getting our first deacons because the long time archbishop (2 ago) didn't want them. New archbishop finally started the program, and he has now gone on to a larger diocese. Our newest archbishop will be the one to finally do the ordinations. I only knew the last archbishop, so can't speak to how the one before him was personally, I'm going on what my husband told me. So even if you choose a really conservative bishop/diocese, that can change many times during your career.

I'd pick a diocese that needs you desperately, one that uses a sound seminary, and has a good support system for its priests. I know my former pastor relied heavily on his priest's support group, and never missed, no matter what. I suspect they played poker and talked about issues that had come up. Also look at how that diocese treats/houses its retired priests.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='LivingStone' post='1522201' date='May 8 2008, 11:59 AM']The archdiocese that I grew up in isn't entirely ideal: The lay people are generally liberal and progressive across the board. The cardinal is amazing and is slowly fixing a broken diocese. Many of the priests (holy as they are) seem progressive which makes me very uneasy at times (meaning that I at one time or another wonder whether Mass was valid...).

A neighboring diocese (lay and priests) is much more conservative and traditional in terms of standing in line with the Holy Father.[/quote]

Well, the most important question to address is... do you root for the Cubs or White Sox?

Or maybe I'm not as a smart as I think I am. Since you weren't criticizing the archbishop or anyone who could be personally identitifed, I like to play the Guess That Diocese game.

[quote name='LivingStone' post='1522201' date='May 8 2008, 11:59 AM']1st Question: Am I even allowed to discern two different dioceses or do I become a seminarian for the diocese I grew up in?[/quote]

You shouldn't attempt to actively discern with two dioceses, but there's no reason why you can't contact both vocations directors and learn more about them, maybe go to a few meetings to meet other discerners and seminarians, and use that experience to pray and see which way God could be calling you. You can find faithful, orthodox diocesan priests anywhere if you look hard enough. Being able to talk with one of them should be very helpful, especially since you'll need support from like-minded seminarians and priests if you do go that route.

[quote name='LivingStone' post='1522201' date='May 8 2008, 11:59 AM']2nd Question: If I can discern, can I choose one diocese over another because of its faithfulness to the Holy Father? Am I simply going where I would be comfortable and losing the missionary mindset I must have? Should I go I would be comfortable so I don't "burn out" in a parish in the first two years?[/quote]

Both are valid reasons. At some point, you have to step out in faith and trust that the Church is there as your partner in discernment. If it's not where you should be, you'll find out. I talked to a Dominican priest once who originally discerned with a diocese. They told him he didn't have a vocation. Twelve years later, God called him to the Dominican order. Go figure

[quote name='LivingStone' post='1522201' date='May 8 2008, 11:59 AM']3rd Question: Ok. This is where it could get complicated: The 'progressive' archdiocese sends their seminarians to a seminary that is known for forming the "progressive" priests, where the traditional diocese sends their seminarians to the better seminaries. One person told me that my first priority right now is my own soul and my own formation, and only when I am fully formed should I lead a parish (forming other's souls). Does that mean that for the sake of formation, I am allowed to discern one diocese over another?[/quote]

Every seminarian needs to be strong in their faith because, truth be told, your faith will be "tested as by fire" no matter where you go. That said, some men are better able to handle one situation over another. You may not know for yourself until you finally go to seminary. You might go to the orthodox one and find your faith grows lazy and discouraged by things be far less than the ideal you expected. Maybe you'll find yourself more energized as a "missionary" in a place that values progressive post-modern philosphies. Or it could be the other way around. There's no "wrong" direction... long as you're faithful in prayer, discernment, and listening for God's voice.

As an example, one priest I know who took the orthodox-seminarian-into-liberal-seminary route actually left the seminary in rebellion against them. A few years later, their program improved and he returned and was finally ordained.

St. Francis of Assisi was well knowns for his enthusiasm in jumping at the chance to do whatever he thought God had called him to. Often it wasn't what he was actually doing at the time, but we'll always find God faithful to correct our missteps.

Edited May 8, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[veritas99]

I've known people who have started out studying for one Diocese and then switched Diocese. There was a guy studying for the Joliet Diocese and he was approached by Francis Cardinal George who asked him to come to the arch diocese of Chicago and he ended up switching. Just because you start with one diocese doesn't necessarily mean you can't switch at some point. It's not reccommeded and the seminarians I know refer to it as defecting. So just to throw that out there.

[littlesister]

Duplicate Suggestion: Check the dioceses out as thoroughly as you can from several angles (liturgy, formation, priestly fraternity...) . Do it yourself, not by hearsay, and see what speaks to your heart. By the way, any Living Stone is in a good place to start with. Remember me at the Port!

[VeniteAdoremus]

Switching dioceses is completely normal. And it's also not always unheard of to go to a seminary outside your own diocese, although I wouldn't recommend it because that would make it harder to form a solid relationship with your bishop and your brother students.

I would have a tendency to stay in the more liberal diocese and take it over from the inside but you have to be careful with picking a seminary - the rector should be someone you'd entrust your soul to.

[Vin]

First, pray to the Holy Spirit for courage and charity, you will need these wherever you go. There is no magic place, everyone needs the Gospel preached with faithfulness and love and we are all sinners.

Second, know your own needs for fraternity, but know first that intimacy with the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and serving his poor and wayward are most important.

Third, read Fulton Sheen's book, The Priest is not His Own.

Look at whatever diocese up close, find out what is happening in parishes and where life is to be found.

Some men have choosen not to study with their home diocese in order to go to a more "conservative" place only to see that much of what attracted them was window dressing with greater problems underneath.

The human condition is everywhere virtue is our mighty stronghold. Pray for heroic charity and a generous heart.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Vin

[salterrae]

JM + JT

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1523175' date='May 9 2008, 10:50 AM']I would have a tendency to stay in the more liberal diocese and take it over from the inside but you have to be careful with picking a seminary - the rector should be someone you'd entrust your soul to.[/quote]
Ditto

[LivingStone]

Thanks all. When talking to priests with this, the consensus has generally been the same. I know when it comes to seminaries, you cannot shop around like you do a college. Is there, however, a place where I can find our how orthodox certain seminaries are? I will hopefully attempt to visit many, but I don't want to rely upon word of mouth or anything like that. Any advice when it comes down to investigating individual seminaries?

(I am aware that I won't have a choice in a seminary; rather, the bishop of that time will most likely choose where I learn my theology. Regardless, I don't want to disregard a certain diocese because they send all of their seminarians to a "progressive" or what I've heard as "progressive" seminary.)

All you Catholics out there rock my socks. Peace.

[Vin]

Living Stone,

Start by looking at websites and then formulate questions you want answered. Also, look at the faculty and find out what kinds of things they have published. Some students at the various seminaries may also have blogs. All these things will help to gauge the culture of a place.

[VeniteAdoremus]

Go to the library and ask the sleepy seminarian behind the desk for the "gender studies" section. If he points you to the fairy tales shelf, you're fine

You can ask about communal devotions and stuff - if they have a daily communal rosary, they probably don't have the time left to become overly liberal, so that could serve as an indication. But seriously, speak with the Rector. He'll most probably have an interview with you if you get to application stage anyway, so you can just be a bit early and if you get the chance, see how a "normal" Mass is celebrated there, it could tell you loads.

[Norseman82]

I guess it all depends on the diocese. Talk to their vocations director. See if your desired diocese accepts and ordains men from other dioceses or if they have an "incardination" process for already ordained priests. But keep in mind that the bishop may change over the course of a lifetime (due to death, retirement, or transfer), so don't pin your hopes on one bishop.

[nowak.chris]

[quote name='LivingStone' post='1522201' date='May 8 2008, 11:59 AM']3rd Question: Ok. This is where it could get complicated: The 'progressive' archdiocese sends their seminarians to a seminary that is known for forming the "progressive" priests, where the traditional diocese sends their seminarians to the better seminaries. One person told me that my first priority right now is my own soul and my own formation, and only when I am fully formed should I lead a parish (forming other's souls). Does that mean that for the sake of formation, I am allowed to discern one diocese over another?[/quote]

This, in the humble opinion of an ex-Stone-er, is the most important question. Your formation does have to come first, a bad formation will make you useless (or worse). However, if you want to server in the liberal diocese, see if they will send you to a more conservative seminary, it doesn't hurt to at least ask.

I am doing an end run around a similar situation, my entire state (5 dioceses) send their seminarians to the arch-diocese for formation, when we have one of the best seminaries in the country, if not the world, right across the river (1/2 hr away, vs 2 hrs away). I am entering a small monastic community that has a parish attached that sends its men to the better seminary.

Oh.. and talk to priests off campus as well, (I have found the religious priests tend to be very knowledgeable about religious life, but somewhat vague or diocesan life, and vice versa)