What Do You Think Of The Ascension Feast Being Moved To Sunday?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1519355' date='May 5 2008, 12:55 PM']+J.M.J.+
that would be fine if ALL the U.S. Bishops agreed to move it to Sunday. But you have half the country doing one thing and half doing the other.[/quote]

Yes! I was extremely confused. My parish was one that kept it on Thursday, but no announcement was made the previous Sunday. I heard that it was being moved (Catholic forums and whatnot) and checked my bulletin and Church's website but found no information, so assumed that my parish moved the celebration to Sunday. Imagine my shock when, at Church the Sunday after the Ascension, I realized I had completely missed it.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1519276' date='May 5 2008, 08:51 AM']The Ascension is celebrated liturgically forty days after the Pascha, because it happened historically forty days after the resurrection.[/quote]Do you have a reference for this information? I remember learning this many years ago, but I was unable to find a reliable source when I looked a few months ago.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1526681' date='May 12 2008, 09:28 PM']Do you have a reference for this information? I remember learning this many years ago, but I was unable to find a reliable source when I looked a few months ago.[/quote]
Acts 1:3

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1526687' date='May 12 2008, 10:31 PM']Acts 1:3[/quote]and in Luke 24:50-51 he describes the Ascension happening on Easter Sunday night.

So why do we go with Acts 1:3 over Luke 24:50-51? same author...

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1526729' date='May 12 2008, 10:03 PM']and in Luke 24:50-51 he describes the Ascension happening on Easter Sunday night.

So why do we go with Acts 1:3 over Luke 24:50-51? same author...[/quote]
The Ascension after the 40th day of Easter was definitive in that Jesus had taught the apostles all they needed to know prior to the reception of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Thus according to ecclesial tradition Christ traversed between heaven and earth for 40 days, after which time He ascended into heaven, not to return again in bodily form until the Parousia at the end of time.

Moreover, the period of time between Ascension Thursday and Pentecost Sunday was the first novena of the Church's history, i.e., a nine-day period of prayer and fasting in which the apostles beseeched God for the gift of His uncreated grace. That said, to alter the liturgical cycle for the sake of modern convenience by moving Ascension Thursday to Sunday distorts a significant aspect of the Church's tradition of prayer, fast, and worship.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Apotheoun

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1526743' date='May 12 2008, 11:20 PM']The Ascension after the 40th day of Easter was definitive in that Jesus had taught the apostles all they needed to know prior to the reception of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Thus according to ecclesial tradition Christ traversed between heaven and earth for 40 days, after which time He ascended into heaven, not to return again in bodily form until the Parousia at the end of time.[/quote]You answered my question in two words:"ecclesial tradition."
[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1526743' date='May 12 2008, 11:20 PM']Moreover, the period of time between Ascension Thursday and Pentecost Sunday was the first novena of the Church's history, i.e., a nine-day period of prayer and fasting in which the apostles beseeched God for the gift of His uncreated grace.[/quote]This brings up another question... where did we get [i]nine[/i] days?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1526843' date='May 13 2008, 05:42 AM']You answered my question in two words:"ecclesial tradition."[/quote]
Yes, ecclesial tradition confirmed by scripture, because as scripture relates concerning the Ascension on the fortieth day, "To them he presented Himself alive after His passion by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days, and speaking of the kingdom of God," and after those forty days the Apostles "asked Him, 'Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?' He said to them, 'It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth.' And when He had said this, as they were looking on, He was lifted up, and a cloud took Him out of their sight." Now, according to the Fathers the cloud that is mentioned in this text is the [i]Shekinah[/i] glory of God, and so the cloud signifies the fact thtat the Father has fully accepted the Son's act of redemption, for at this final ascension the Father admits the Son, in His humanity, once again in the uncreated glory that they shared from before the beginning of time.

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1526843' date='May 13 2008, 05:42 AM']This brings up another question... where did we get [i]nine[/i] days?[/quote]
Pentecost (Shavuot) is the festival that falls on the fiftieth day after the Passover (Pasch), and the Ascension of Christ took place – according to both scripture and tradition – on the fortieth day of Easter, and the first Christian Pentecost happened on the fiftieth day of Eastertide. Between the fortieth day and the fiftieth day are nine days, and during those days the Apostles prayed to God for the gift of the Spirit. This nine day period took on theological importance over the centuries and the novena devotions trace their lineage back to the original Apostolic novena in preparation for the descent of the Holy Spirit from the Father through the Son.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1527535' date='May 13 2008, 06:13 PM']Yes, ecclesial tradition confirmed by scripture, because as scripture relates concerning the Ascension on the fortieth day, "To them he presented Himself alive after His passion by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days, and speaking of the kingdom of God," and after those forty days the Apostles "asked Him, 'Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?' He said to them, 'It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth.' And when He had said this, as they were looking on, He was lifted up, and a cloud took Him out of their sight." Now, according to the Fathers the cloud that is mentioned in this text is the [i]Shekinah[/i] glory of God, and so the cloud signifies the fact thtat the Father has fully accepted the Son's act of redemption, for at this final ascension the Father admits the Son, in His humanity, once again in the uncreated glory that they shared from before the beginning of time.[/quote]
Have you ever gone through scripture and looked at how many things took 40 days (or weeks or years)?
I have. In Hebrew scripture I found seven:
(1) Noah and company in the Ark watched rain fall for 40 days and 40 nights (Genesis 6-9)
(2) Sarah, Abraham's wife, carried Isaac for 40 weeks (Genesis 12; 17; 22)
(3) Moses was on Mount Sinai receiving the 10 commandments for 40 days (Exodus 24; 34)
(4) The Israelites scouted the land of Canaan for 40 days (Numbers 13);
(5) then wandered the desert for 40 years (Numbers 14)
(6) Goliath intimidated the Israelites for 40 days before David stepped up (1 Samuel 17; 2 Samuel 7)
(7) The Lord gave Ninevah 40 days to straighten up before being destroyed (Jonah 3)

Is it a coincidence that Jesus took 40 days in the desert before His public ministry and that the apostles saw Christ for 40 days after the resurrection? Does God just like the number 40?

What do you make of it?

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1527535' date='May 13 2008, 06:13 PM']Pentecost (Shavuot) is the festival that falls on the fiftieth day after the Passover (Pasch), and the Ascension of Christ took place – according to both scripture and tradition – on the fortieth day of Easter, and the first Christian Pentecost happened on the fiftieth day of Eastertide. Between the fortieth day and the fiftieth day are nine days, and during those days the Apostles prayed to God for the gift of the Spirit. This nine day period took on theological importance over the centuries and the novena devotions trace their lineage back to the original Apostolic novena in preparation for the descent of the Holy Spirit from the Father through the Son.[/quote]
From what I could find, novenas were not accepted by church authorities until the 17th century. They were rejected earlier because of their resemblance to pagan Roman rituals that took nine days. Do you know any more about their historical development? I hit a brick wall.

[Adrestia]

Anyone else have thoughts on this? (It wasn't a rhetorical question.)

[LouisvilleFan]

I know 40 is essentially the number used to say "a lot" or "a long time" in Hebrew. It shouldn't be interpreted literally in most cases. These are stories about God's relationship with his people, not strict historical narratives.

As for the novena, I have no idea. If you are tempted to worship Roman gods when praying a novena, then I'd recommended avoiding the practice.