Dispensing Contraceptives

[picchick]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516141' date='May 1 2008, 04:54 PM']Word. Would it be morally permissible to hold a gun to someone's head in an effort to convert them to Christianity?[/quote]

I don't think that would be a good idea.....

1) they would agree only for their life their heart would not be in it
2) I am sure that Jesus would look down upon it
3) Someone would have to bail you out of jail.

[kujo]

[quote name='picchick' post='1516180' date='May 1 2008, 06:16 PM'] I don't think that would be a good idea.....

1) they would agree only for their life their heart would not be in it
2) I am sure that Jesus would look down upon it
3) Someone would have to bail you out of jail.[/quote]

We are in complete accord, Picchick. You are 100% right...the ends do not justify the means.

And I'm a poor college student who lives with other poor college studens...there would be no bailing me out of anywhere.

[kujo]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1516161' date='May 1 2008, 06:06 PM']Well, since I generally don't experience discomfort in social situations unless it's excessively polite company, I doubt it would be a problem...it's the polite conversations that I can't handle.
Well, since my mom is a nurse...and well, my extended family doesn't really help things...I mean, everything about how bodies work is so matter of fact that I never really picked up on how to be embarrassed by it...Although, my mom DOES get a lil upset when I can't stop burping...[/quote]

MissScripture, would you like to come over for dinner? If you can handle burps, insults between me and my sister Katie (we tend to playfully make fun of each other...ALWAYS!), discussion of touchy subjects (politics, religion, my mom's desire to find a man...) and the occasion nose-picking, you'd fit right in.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516192' date='May 1 2008, 05:20 PM']MissScripture, would you like to come over for dinner? If you can handle burps, insults between me and my sister Katie (we tend to playfully make fun of each other...ALWAYS!), discussion of touchy subjects (politics, religion, my mom's desire to find a man...) and the occasion nose-picking, you'd fit right in.[/quote]
Politics I might not join in on, but it won't bother me if other discuss it...the rest sounds kinda like home (well, minus your mother wanting to find a man...I'm sure my dad would be offended if my mom ever said anything of that sort, since they're married...lol)

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1515828' date='May 1 2008, 11:30 AM']Not necessarily. I thought that would be possible as well, but the pill alters the cervical mucus, so you can't tell from that sign if you're ovulating or not. I'm not sure if it also effects temps, as I didn't check temps. BTW, the cervical mucus can be really hard to read when coming off the pill, too. I didn't show signs of fertility even though I was ovulating when I came off the pill.[/quote]

Interesting... I'd heard through a priest I know of a couple that practiced NFP while the wife on taking contraception for some medical reason. Maybe they used the thermal method and something else (aren't there like 3 or 4 methods?) that isn't affected so much by the pill.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1515851' date='May 1 2008, 12:22 PM']I agree with you that we shouldn't use Birth Control, as it is a way we play God. We decided how many children we have, rather than letting God do the decisions for us. Would he give us any situation that we couldn't handle, No.

However, I don't think if people choose to do that, we should stand in their way. As I said - I would say, It is against my beliefs to provide you this prescription, so where would you like me to send it?

Forcing people to do what God would have them to do is wrong, because it takes away a persons free will, a gift God gave all of us.[/quote]

The point I was disputing was you saying that avoidance of contraceptives "is really not essential in the Christian Faith."

Edited May 1, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[picchick]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1516218' date='May 1 2008, 06:16 PM']Interesting... I'd heard through a priest I know of a couple that practiced NFP while the wife on taking contraception for some medical reason. Maybe they used the thermal method and something else (aren't there like 3 or 4 methods?) that isn't affected so much by the pill.[/quote]


Yeah there are several different ones that you can use together or separate:

One is the Calendar methon or rhythm method. This is where the menstrual cycles are recorded over several months. Then the woman assumes the ovulation occurs 14 days before the start of her period. It is better to use this with one of the other methods because ovulation can pretty much occur anytime.

Another is the Basal body temp. The theory behind this is that the woman's temp will drop before ovulation. It is pretty reliable.

Then you've got the Billings method that is the mucus one. This one to me is so interesting because of all the physiology behind it. I won't get into though cause some people might think its gross.

So the pill really shouldn't be used the the last one for sure considering that the hormones will really mess everything up.

Also, you should take into consideration that the pill holds the hormones steady to prevent ovulation. On the days that the woman has her period is the "placebo" pills. This allows the hormones to drop and menstration follows. The temperature changes reflects, I believe the fluctuation in hormones. I don't know how they did any of the methods if the woman's hormones aren't changing. I mean I guess that they could have but the woman would not have been ovulating so there would be no ovulation detected on her records.

I have pictures if you guys need it. Man I wish I had a chalk board!

[Alycin]

Thanks everyone for the advice about my girl problems.

And Miss Scripture, Imma PM you now..

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='-I---Love' post='1515903' date='May 1 2008, 11:15 AM']Your line of reasoning is like: I don't believe abortion is right, but you should still be able to decide yourself. I don't believe contraception is right or even healthy, but go ahead and harm yourself. If we loved our neighbor, if we cared about the state of their soul and their bodily health here on earth, we would try a little harder to help them out. If I see my kid is about to reach for the hot stove burner, should I let him, after all, I don't want to limit his freedom... Yes, God has given us free will. But, we are not to stand idly by, we are the ones who are called to help people to use that free will in following good. Not doing so is a lack of charity. Spiritual work of mercy - admonish the sinner...of course in a pastoral and hence effective way.

I'm not sure where some are getting the sense that the guy is trying to draw attention to himself.[/quote]

Rights are messy things.

[quote]And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

[b]He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.[/b]

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.[/quote]

The Lords words, not mine.

If people without the holy spirit want to play God, then let them play God. God won't approve, and they will face the spiritual and physical consequences of their sins. Anybody who thinks it is okay to play God in a thousand areas in life have already taken the mark of the beast, thinking they know better than God. So let God bring judgment for their sins.

[kujo]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1516373' date='May 1 2008, 11:06 PM']Rights are messy things.
The Lords words, not mine.

If people without the holy spirit want to play God, then let them play God. God won't approve, and they will face the spiritual and physical consequences of their sins. Anybody who thinks it is okay to play God in a thousand areas in life have already taken the mark of the beast, thinking they know better than God. So let God bring judgment for their sins.[/quote]

Dude, you are brutal. I'm glad you're not Jesus, or else we would all end up in hell like we deserve!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516017' date='May 1 2008, 01:45 PM']Amen sister. In the ideal world, I would agree; however, in our pluralistic country, where different moral views course through the veins of our cities, we must be vigilant not to place the power to impose ANY morality--right or wrong-- on people who disagree. This is an extreme example, but what if a Muslim were elected to the presidency and felt it would be "moral" for women to cover their faces up? We would all disagree, of course, but he would be trying to force his moral views on us. The natural counter-argument would be to highlight our stance against abortion being an imposition of the same sort. I would say that abortion is different because it deals with the murder of a human, while birth control is wrong, but physically harms no one.[/quote]


Abortion is legal pacifically because morality has been taken out of the equation. Good and just laws are based in morality. Perhaps one day you will see how foolish your stance is, I will pray for that day.

Peace in Christ.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1516222' date='May 1 2008, 05:28 PM']The point I was disputing was you saying that avoidance of contraceptives "is really not essential in the Christian Faith."[/quote]

Yeah, I did say that. I stand correct it.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516375' date='May 1 2008, 09:08 PM']Dude, you are brutal. I'm glad you're not Jesus, or else we would all end up in hell like we deserve![/quote]

Great news, I'm not Jesus. I try to be like him. I listen to his spirit, and I take stands when it is appropriate.

I just like pointing out that God's word tells us to let people be like they are, but to invite them into a relationship with Christ. If someone who follows all the rules, but doesn't have a relationship with Christ, what good is that? Now, once you have a relationship with Jesus, and you talk to him, and he talks to you, then you will start to obey the rules just out of love and passion for Jesus. You can't help but to follow the rules, because you love Jesus and Jesus loves you!

So, I don't think everybody is going to hell. Many people in the world are falling in love with Jesus right now, and they are learning to hear his voice, and not obey the rules out of obligation, but out of celebration! It is a truly amazing the kind of walk with God you can have, when you take yourself and your ego out of the equation.

[kujo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1516377' date='May 1 2008, 11:09 PM']Abortion is legal pacifically because morality has been taken out of the equation. Good and just laws are based in morality. Perhaps one day you will see how foolish your stance is, I will pray for that day.

Peace in Christ.[/quote]

I think abortion is legal because people fail to see the fact that the fetus/unborn baby is, in fact, a human entitled to the same rights and protections that the rest of us have. I think if everyone accepted that, then they would believe that abortion is wrong because they already accept that murder (or the taking of another human's life) is wrong.

I don't think my stance is foolish, but I appreciate the prayers anyway. Thanks

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1516386' date='May 1 2008, 11:20 PM']Great news, I'm not Jesus. I try to be like him. I listen to his spirit, and I take stands when it is appropriate.

I just like pointing out that God's word tells us to let people be like they are, but to invite them into a relationship with Christ. If someone who follows all the rules, but doesn't have a relationship with Christ, what good is that? Now, once you have a relationship with Jesus, and you talk to him, and he talks to you, then you will start to obey the rules just out of love and passion for Jesus. You can't help but to follow the rules, because you love Jesus and Jesus loves you!

So, I don't think everybody is going to hell. Many people in the world are falling in love with Jesus right now, and they are learning to hear his voice, and not obey the rules out of obligation, but out of celebration! It is a truly amazing the kind of walk with God you can have, when you take yourself and your ego out of the equation.[/quote]

Oh. That's not what you said before. My mistake. I feel you there. Good stuff!

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516434' date='May 1 2008, 10:15 PM']I think abortion is legal because people fail to see the fact that the fetus/unborn baby is, in fact, a human entitled to the same rights and protections that the rest of us have. I think if everyone accepted that, then they would believe that abortion is wrong because they already accept that murder (or the taking of another human's life) is wrong.

I don't think my stance is foolish, but I appreciate the prayers anyway. Thanks
Oh. That's not what you said before. My mistake. I feel you there. Good stuff![/quote]

I have an attitude, Be an example, not a finger pointer. I allow people to live anyway they want, while living the life Christ has decided for me. I have to go through some awful stuff, but in the end, the rewards are eternal. I don't want anybody to have to live through the life I live.

Beyond the eternal benefits, there are some amazing temporal benefits.

Now, I know I am about to open a whole can of worms with what I am about to say, but I think it is very appropriate I share at this time.

Ritalin is really a poison. It is way over prescribed to parents who are just plain lazy.

As a child, I was active, as most Boys are. Yes, to the ones who have been calling me a girl for a couple of weeks now, I am not, LOL!

Now because I have an really wild imagination and lots of energy as a boy, the educators told my mom I had ADHD (not true as this is a permanent condition - and a recent psycho-educational assessment ruled me out - you don't grow out of ADHD, ever!).

I did develop a Learning Disability, I had an awful short term memory, until one day, I read how Ritalin actually causes short term memory brain damage. . .

I know I didn't have ADHD, but was forced to take 'medication' anyways. I asked God - Lord, I never made a choice to take Ritalin, I had to obey my mother. So repair the brain damage this has caused me, as I shouldn't have to pay for the sins of the people who forced me to take this poison.

Guess what, before then, I was having a good day remember two or three numbers out of a phone number in a row. Now, on good days I can remember each number of a phone number if I listen to it, all ten digits!

Serving God has benefits in the temporal, and serving God certainly has benefits in the eternal.