Dispensing Contraceptives

[picchick]

The thing about birth control is there are different dosaging. It is a lower form then the big guns, I guess you could say. But you can "customize" it. Some will have more estrogen and less Progesterone and others have the opposite. It kinda depends on the woman and how she deals with it too.

I am not all that familiar with BC but what I learned from Pharmocolgy and OB.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='kujo' post='1515387' date='Apr 30 2008, 05:29 PM']I don't look to the State for moral guidance. And I think anyone who does is severely mistaken. But I respect your views and agree with them, to an extent. I don't think the best way to deal with these tendencies towards sins is to make them illegal; rather, I think we need to evangelize better, preaching the Gospel of Love that our Lord gave to us. It reminds me of the premise of [u]Footloose[/u]--just because they outlawed dancing, doesn't mean that the inclination towards the sin they feared had gone anywhere.[/quote]

Yes, i agree again on the need for evangelization! Preach it! In the meantime, can you imagine if we had a bunch of well-informed, practicing Christians enacting moral laws? Even if peoples' hearts weren't yet stirred, as they were waiting on the work of the Holy Spirit to do so, the decrease in overall sin would have tremendous effects on our society!

Quick example: Times Square - former moral cesspit of humanity where most people would never imagine going; definitely not a place for the kiddies. Guiliani rushed through city codes that all but eliminated the large presence of XXX stores/shows, and today, it's a top tourist-attraction - Disney is there, for crying out loud (although i know the problems concerning Disney, so no need to pick that apart)! Are the masses of peoples' hearts in lower Manhattan all that changed? Perhaps not. Is there a decrease in crime and the sins of the flesh in that part of the city? Yes.

Now, humor me, and allow me to take this further. Imagine a street preacher standing out on Seventh, inviting people to a talk or Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament at a nearby parish. Does he have a greater chance of getting through to people in the new Times Square, or the old? Of course, we can't know until Heaven, but i would venture he is more successful just getting people in the pews in the new.

Also, the fact that you, and i would argue, most people on this board, don't look to the state for moral guidance is no surprise to me. However, i am afraid we are in the minority, my friend. Minimalism and individualism are rampant in our society, which is part of the reason why i do see it as a duty of the State to enact moral laws. Thus, i personally have no problem with sin taxes, movie rating systems (although i wish they were enforced more), codes decreasing the number of adult entertainment stores, etc.

[-I---Love]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1515851' date='May 1 2008, 12:22 PM']I agree with you that we shouldn't use Birth Control, as it is a way we play God. We decided how many children we have, rather than letting God do the decisions for us. Would he give us any situation that we couldn't handle, No.

However, I don't think if people choose to do that, we should stand in their way. As I said - I would say, It is against my beliefs to provide you this prescription, so where would you like me to send it?

Forcing people to do what God would have them to do is wrong, because it takes away a persons free will, a gift God gave all of us.[/quote]

Your line of reasoning is like: I don't believe abortion is right, but you should still be able to decide yourself. I don't believe contraception is right or even healthy, but go ahead and harm yourself. If we loved our neighbor, if we cared about the state of their soul and their bodily health here on earth, we would try a little harder to help them out. If I see my kid is about to reach for the hot stove burner, should I let him, after all, I don't want to limit his freedom... Yes, God has given us free will. But, we are not to stand idly by, we are the ones who are called to help people to use that free will in following good. Not doing so is a lack of charity. Spiritual work of mercy - admonish the sinner...of course in a pastoral and hence effective way.

I'm not sure where some are getting the sense that the guy is trying to draw attention to himself.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='-I---Love' post='1515410' date='Apr 30 2008, 07:02 PM']Unless you have a really crappy doctor, all I would have to do is call up the doctor and ask them to phone in the prescription to another place. Not a big deal. Of course he should have given her the prescription back.[/quote]
She didn't have the prescription, it was a refill. The pharmacy would've had the prescription on file.

[quote name='Alycin' post='1515616' date='Apr 30 2008, 11:04 PM']Im glad you brought up this point.

Males, stop reading now because this is girly yuck talk. lol.

I have always been very irregular. I started my period when I was 10 so it's not an, "oh, give it time" thing. I was put on birth control by my doctor last year because the irregularity got to an alarming point. I didn't have a period for 2, 3 months, and then I'd have a period that lasted 2 weeks, sometimes longer.

I stopped taking the BC after my periods became regular, and they stayed regular for 3 months. Then they started going back to being completely random. I had my last period the first part of January. I have been trying to decide what to do, whether to get back on BC or not. I know it's unhealthy to not menstruate for months at a time, and when I have those super-long periods, I become anemic.

If I DO make the difficult decision to get back on BC, I certainly think that the pharmacist should prescribe me my medicine... as someone who isn't even having sex, I'm not actually preventing any births and so they don't REALLY have a reason to deny me the Rx.

I know my case is rare, but still... these things need to be considered.

I wish there was medicine that JUST regulated your periods and wasn't actually a contraceptive. [/quote]
Do you know WHY you're not working right? You should find a NFP only doctor. It's REALLY awkward taking the NFP classes by yourself...but it's worth it, and so it the dr. I would not reccomend taking the BC because of other side effects from it, because you can get horomones that are not BC. But if you wanna talk about it sometime PM me or something, cuz I got to go through all of that last summer.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1515819' date='May 1 2008, 10:12 AM']Just curious, I've heard that some OB/GYNs (the strong pro-life, Catholic types) are usually able to treat these kinds of cases without birth control. Is this something you've tried?

FWIW, if you were married, you could still practice NFP while taking a contraceptive for medical reasons. That way you'd get the spiritual benefits and avoid the risk of unknowingly aborting a child before implantation.
It was essential to the Christian Faith until 1930-something. It's not about following a rule. Rather, we are recognizing the fundamental mystery and purpose of marriage and the meaning of our lives. If we are disposable at conception, what makes us so irreplaceable as adults? One is not more or less human than the other. If the tiniest form of human life can be "rightly" objectified, why wouldn't I be "right" in objectifying anyone else?[/quote]
You can't do NFP because the BC changes what you're looking at. You can't tell if you're on BC.

[quote name='kujo' post='1515852' date='May 1 2008, 11:24 AM']Yeah, I've heard about this a lot actually (I lived with 5 women growing up). One of my younger sisters has a similar problem, having gotten her period when she was 11 and it being extremely irregular since, and her doctor suggested she go on BC. At the time, I was freaking out, wanting to storm into his office and burn him at the stake for suggesting such a thing to my baby sister. But then my priest suggested I read Pope Paul VI's [i]Humane Vitae[/i]:
As you said, you can feel justified in using BC if it's necessary. And, since you are not going to be using it for its [b]other[/b] use, you've got nothing to worry about. But, still...I'll be praying for you and your decision.
I agree, dude. His reaction seems a little bit like someone trying to draw attention to himself. Actually, kinda reminds me of Peter's premature declaration of who Jesus really was. I can identify with this guy because I have the tendency to get carried away in a similar manner. I am so excited to do the right thing, that I stumble over my words and feet while I'm trying to do it, inevitably leading me to messing it all up. Still, you're right: a) he should've informed his employer of his moral objections, and b) he should've carried out his actions with a bit more sensitivity.[/quote]
I still wouldn't think she should go on BC, because of the side effects of it. There is probably a lot of stuff she doesn't need in the BC and it can do a lot of harm to a body to have excess amounts of some things. They really need to figure out WHY things are wrong before they go prescribing BC to fix them.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1515955' date='May 1 2008, 06:29 PM']They really need to figure out WHY things are wrong before they go prescribing BC to fix them.[/quote]
All too often they treat the symptoms, and not the actual cause (just speaking from my experience, where they saw I was having irregular, heavy cycles and anemic, but didn't figure out WHY).

[kujo]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1515902' date='May 1 2008, 01:14 PM']Yes, i agree again on the need for evangelization! Preach it! In the meantime, can you imagine if we had a bunch of well-informed, practicing Christians enacting moral laws? Even if peoples' hearts weren't yet stirred, as they were waiting on the work of the Holy Spirit to do so, the decrease in overall sin would have tremendous effects on our society!

Quick example: Times Square - former moral cesspit of humanity where most people would never imagine going; definitely not a place for the kiddies. Guiliani rushed through city codes that all but eliminated the large presence of XXX stores/shows, and today, it's a top tourist-attraction - Disney is there, for crying out loud (although i know the problems concerning Disney, so no need to pick that apart)! Are the masses of peoples' hearts in lower Manhattan all that changed? Perhaps not. Is there a decrease in crime and the sins of the flesh in that part of the city? Yes.

Now, humor me, and allow me to take this further. Imagine a street preacher standing out on Seventh, inviting people to a talk or Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament at a nearby parish. Does he have a greater chance of getting through to people in the new Times Square, or the old? Of course, we can't know until Heaven, but i would venture he is more successful just getting people in the pews in the new.

Also, the fact that you, and i would argue, most people on this board, don't look to the state for moral guidance is no surprise to me. However, i am afraid we are in the minority, my friend. Minimalism and individualism are rampant in our society, which is part of the reason why i do see it as a duty of the State to enact moral laws. Thus, i personally have no problem with sin taxes, movie rating systems (although i wish they were enforced more), codes decreasing the number of adult entertainment stores, etc.[/quote]

Amen sister. In the ideal world, I would agree; however, in our pluralistic country, where different moral views course through the veins of our cities, we must be vigilant not to place the power to impose ANY morality--right or wrong-- on people who disagree. This is an extreme example, but what if a Muslim were elected to the presidency and felt it would be "moral" for women to cover their faces up? We would all disagree, of course, but he would be trying to force his moral views on us. The natural counter-argument would be to highlight our stance against abortion being an imposition of the same sort. I would say that abortion is different because it deals with the murder of a human, while birth control is wrong, but physically harms no one.

I happen to be from New York and have been blessed by the work Mayor Giuliani did during his time in NYC. He didn't do everything well, but he did make NYC a heck of a lot safer. Crime was rampant in New York City, which is why Giuliani was able to crack down the way he was. Now it's an extremely safe place to be. I don't think a preacher or a Eucharistic Minister would have much success in the scenario you pointed out, though. I mean, there's shopping to do and plays to see!

Anyway, I think we have arrived at an impasse, my sister. My views on this are informed greatly by my desire for a limited government that allows its citizens to pursue whatever lifesyle they want to lead, within certain parameters. I think murder, rape and theft are examples of things that are morally wrong and which contribute to a lack of safety in society; however, birth control, laws banning homosexuality, and same-sex unions are different issues, IMHO. I respect your views and eagerly anticipate a time when the hearts of our brothers and sisters would be ready to accept them.

[quote name='-I---Love' post='1515903' date='May 1 2008, 01:15 PM']If we loved our neighbor, if we cared about the state of their soul and their bodily health here on earth, we would try a little harder to help them out. If I see my kid is about to reach for the hot stove burner, should I let him, after all, I don't want to limit his freedom... Yes, God has given us free will. But, we are not to stand idly by, we are the ones who are called to help people to use that free will in following good. Not doing so is a lack of charity. Spiritual work of mercy - admonish the sinner...of course in a pastoral and hence effective way.

I'm not sure where some are getting the sense that the guy is trying to draw attention to himself.[/quote]

I agree, to an extent. You cannot coerce someone into morality. You have to let people take their lumps so that they learn to duck when a punch his thrown. Out of love, we naturally want to shield those we love from the tiniest pain (trust me...I'm the only brother to 4 sisters...I've gotten into many a fight protecting and defending them). But sometimes we have to share our opinions, tell them we love them, and let them make the wrong choice. It's part a part of love that we must learn from Christ.

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1515955' date='May 1 2008, 02:29 PM']She didn't have the prescription, it was a refill. The pharmacy would've had the prescription on file.
Do you know WHY you're not working right? You should find a NFP only doctor. It's REALLY awkward taking the NFP classes by yourself...but it's worth it, and so it the dr. I would not reccomend taking the BC because of other side effects from it, because you can get horomones that are not BC. But if you wanna talk about it sometime PM me or something, cuz I got to go through all of that last summer.
You can't do NFP because the BC changes what you're looking at. You can't tell if you're on BC.
I still wouldn't think she should go on BC, because of the side effects of it. There is probably a lot of stuff she doesn't need in the BC and it can do a lot of harm to a body to have excess amounts of some things. They really need to figure out WHY things are wrong before they go prescribing BC to fix them.[/quote]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1515974' date='May 1 2008, 02:45 PM'] All too often they treat the symptoms, and not the actual cause (just speaking from my experience, where they saw I was having irregular, heavy cycles and anemic, but didn't figure out WHY).[/quote]

How did this become a discussion on mucus, estrogen and menstruation?!? I wonder how many we've scared off with talk of this?

Edited May 1, 2008 by kujo

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516017' date='May 1 2008, 07:45 PM']How did this become a discussion on mucus, estrogen and menstruation?!? I wonder how many we've scared off with talk of this? [/quote]
I'll stop now. I've obviously been spending too much time on an NFP board.

[picchick]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516017' date='May 1 2008, 02:45 PM']How did this become a discussion on mucus, estrogen and menstruation?!? I wonder how many we've scared off with talk of this? [/quote]



Hasn't scared me yet...I live for this stuff....well sorta

[kujo]

[quote name='picchick' post='1516107' date='May 1 2008, 05:31 PM']
Hasn't scared me yet...I live for this stuff....well sorta[/quote]

Yeah, kinda different story!

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1516034' date='May 1 2008, 03:00 PM']I'll stop now. I've obviously been spending too much time on an NFP board. [/quote]
You can spend TOO MUCH time on an NFP board?

[quote name='picchick' post='1516107' date='May 1 2008, 04:31 PM']
Hasn't scared me yet...I live for this stuff....well sorta[/quote]
Well, you're a nurse!

[quote name='kujo' post='1516116' date='May 1 2008, 04:35 PM']Yeah, kinda different story![/quote]
Yeah, we healthcare types sometimes forget that other people aren't quite so comfortable talking about this stuff...just be glad you've never been around for some of our lunch/dinner table conversations...

[kujo]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1516126' date='May 1 2008, 05:47 PM']Yeah, we healthcare types sometimes forget that other people aren't quite so comfortable talking about this stuff...just be glad you've never been around for some of our lunch/dinner table conversations...[/quote]

Hehe. I am more than comfortable with this conversation because I'm used to it. It was hard to walk around my house growing up without stepping on tampons, butterfly-clips, hair-ties and hair-straighteners. And you've never never experienced discomfort until you've had dinner and participated in conversations at the Kiernan household.

[picchick]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1516126' date='May 1 2008, 04:47 PM']Yeah, we healthcare types sometimes forget that other people aren't quite so comfortable talking about this stuff...just be glad you've never been around for some of our lunch/dinner table conversations...[/quote]


Yeah I have problems when we have company over....mom and dad give me a look I still haven't caught on.

One thing I would like to mention about stealing condoms out of the grocery bags. The end does not justify the means. Just because you steal them to help their souls doesn't mean that it is going to help them in the long run. People will just go out and buy more. Why not teach them instead?

[kujo]

[quote name='picchick' post='1516138' date='May 1 2008, 05:53 PM']Yeah I have problems when we have company over....mom and dad give me a look I still haven't caught on.

One thing I would like to mention about stealing condoms out of the grocery bags. The end does not justify the means. Just because you steal them to help their souls doesn't mean that it is going to help them in the long run. People will just go out and buy more. Why not teach them instead?[/quote]

Word. Would it be morally permissible to hold a gun to someone's head in an effort to convert them to Christianity?

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516017' date='May 1 2008, 01:45 PM']I don't think a preacher or a Eucharistic Minister would have much success in the scenario you pointed out, though. I mean, there's shopping to do and plays to see! [/quote]



well-taken.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='kujo' post='1516137' date='May 1 2008, 04:52 PM']Hehe. I am more than comfortable with this conversation because I'm used to it. It was hard to walk around my house growing up without stepping on tampons, butterfly-clips, hair-ties and hair-straighteners. And you've never never experienced discomfort until you've had dinner and participated in conversations at the Kiernan household.[/quote]
Well, since I generally don't experience discomfort in social situations unless it's excessively polite company, I doubt it would be a problem...it's the polite conversations that I can't handle.

[quote name='picchick' post='1516138' date='May 1 2008, 04:53 PM']Yeah I have problems when we have company over....mom and dad give me a look I still haven't caught on.[/quote]
Well, since my mom is a nurse...and well, my extended family doesn't really help things...I mean, everything about how bodies work is so matter of fact that I never really picked up on how to be embarrassed by it...Although, my mom DOES get a lil upset when I can't stop burping...