Dispensing Contraceptives

[kujo]

[quote name='-I---Love' post='1515410' date='Apr 30 2008, 08:02 PM']Why does he not have the right to work at a pharmacy? Because he's a certain religion? That's wrong. I think that is something we call prejudice...[/quote]

You don't have the RIGHT to work everywhere. He has the prerogative to work there, but if it's going to violate his moral views, he should work elsewhere.

[quote name='-I---Love' post='1515410' date='Apr 30 2008, 08:02 PM']Btw, while I probably wouldn't, I have no problem with someone taking someones condoms from their grocery bag. It's a work of mercy

A catholic who believes that being a pharmacist means they have to compromise their principles is a fool. Have courage! Grow up![/quote]

Haha. You are so incredibly narrow-minded that I want to take a picture with you and show it to my godson. Seriously, you think that I need to "grow up" because I think that it is the responsibility of the guy to inform his employer of his possible moral qualms with the responsiblities of his job...that being, to give out medicine people have prescribed to them.

I do, however, find your acceptance of larceny quite ironic.

[Socrates]

[quote name='kujo' post='1515412' date='Apr 30 2008, 06:10 PM']You don't have the RIGHT to work everywhere. He has the prerogative to work there, but if it's going to violate his moral views, he should work elsewhere.
Haha. You are so incredibly narrow-minded that I want to take a picture with you and show it to my godson. Seriously, you think that I need to "grow up" because I think that it is the responsibility of the guy to inform his employer of his possible moral qualms with the responsiblities of his job...that being, to give out medicine people have prescribed to them.

I do, however, find your acceptance of larceny quite ironic.[/quote]
So is it the government's job to enforce against larceny?

After all if we give the government the power to ban condom-theft, next thing you know they'll have the power to confiscate your property for no reason at all. It's a slippery slope when you start legislating morality, ya know . . .

Edited May 1, 2008 by Socrates

[kujo]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1515524' date='Apr 30 2008, 10:16 PM']So is it the government's job to enforce against larceny?

After all if we give the government the power to ban condom-theft, next thing you know they'll have the power to confiscate your property for no reason at all. It's a slippery slope when you start legislating morality, ya know . . .[/quote]

Huh?

[-I---Love]

[quote name='kujo' post='1515412' date='Apr 30 2008, 08:10 PM']You don't have the RIGHT to work everywhere. He has the prerogative to work there, but if it's going to violate his moral views, he should work elsewhere.
Haha. You are so incredibly narrow-minded that I want to take a picture with you and show it to my godson. Seriously, you think that I need to "grow up" because I think that it is the responsibility of the guy to inform his employer of his possible moral qualms with the responsiblities of his job...that being, to give out medicine people have prescribed to them.

I do, however, find your acceptance of larceny quite ironic.[/quote]

If one desires to be a pharmacist and informs their employer that they will not do such and such, then I'm not seeing why he "should work elsewhere" as you recommend. So who decides where one has the right to work?

Narrow-minded comments are always amusing.

I wasn't actually telling you to grow up, unless you're a catholic pharmacist who has thrown away their morals because they think they must conform, but if you'd like to take the recommendation feel free.

Contraceptives are typically not medicine.

A definition of medicine:

1. any substance or substances used in treating disease or illness; medicament; remedy.
2. the art or science of restoring or preserving health or due physical condition, as by means of drugs, surgical operations or appliances, or manipulations: often divided into medicine proper, surgery, and obstetrics.
3. the art or science of treating disease with drugs or curative substances, as distinguished from surgery and obstetrics.

Fertility is neither a disease nor illness, although many today treat it as so. Surprising to some, infertility is actually the illness.

[Alycin]

[quote name='-I---Love' post='1515594' date='Apr 30 2008, 10:43 PM']Contraceptives are typically not medicine.[/quote]

Im glad you brought up this point.

Males, stop reading now because this is girly yuck talk. lol.

I have always been very irregular. I started my period when I was 10 so it's not an, "oh, give it time" thing. I was put on birth control by my doctor last year because the irregularity got to an alarming point. I didn't have a period for 2, 3 months, and then I'd have a period that lasted 2 weeks, sometimes longer.

I stopped taking the BC after my periods became regular, and they stayed regular for 3 months. Then they started going back to being completely random. I had my last period the first part of January. I have been trying to decide what to do, whether to get back on BC or not. I know it's unhealthy to not menstruate for months at a time, and when I have those super-long periods, I become anemic.

If I DO make the difficult decision to get back on BC, I certainly think that the pharmacist should prescribe me my medicine... as someone who isn't even having sex, I'm not actually preventing any births and so they don't REALLY have a reason to deny me the Rx.

I know my case is rare, but still... these things need to be considered.

I wish there was medicine that JUST regulated your periods and wasn't actually a contraceptive.

[-I---Love]

Alycin - sorry to hear about your difficulty. Such problems are really crappy to say the least so I wish you the best. In the meantime, some people have been helped or "cured" by trying herbal alternatives, etc. If you have the opportunity to go to a good chiropractor in your area that does supplements, applied kinesiology, energy medicine, or the like, it is something to look into. I know that if I was in your shoes I would try every avenue possible before I had to go for the BC. We all know how harmful BC can be. Take care. Btw, it is funny isn't - that there isn't a medicine that just does that...makes you wonder what's going on...

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1515018' date='Apr 30 2008, 10:07 AM'][url="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=744221"]http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=744221[/url]
what would you have done if you were employee?

should the employer be allowed to fire him?
i don't see anything stopping firing.

does freedom of religion mean the state can't pass requirements that says you are to proscribe pills or at least refer them?
i know a state can require catholic charities, if it wants grant money, to dispense contraceptives, and that is legal.
what is there to take to court here?

is it right that we can ban all these sins, and could ban contraceptives by his type of reasoning, but we can't require them to be sold etc? my concern is even handed laws.[/quote]

After reading the story, I have to say he messed up. He should have told his employer that he wouldn't dispense the contraceptives because he has religious reasons to be against it.

Another thing to note, is his refusal to help. I'll be honest, that is a little self-righteous. My religious beliefs says you are sinning. I'm going to force you to believe like me! His zeal was a little over the top. He should have been a little like Pilate about this, send the prescription to another Pharmacy for it to be filled, and then wash his hands of the matter.

What I would have done, I would have said, sorry maam, this is against my religious beliefs, however, if you want me to send the prescription to another pharmacy I will do so. Where would you like me to send it?

I know, I'm not Catholic, though I don't believe in Birth Control, as it is playing God as it comes to the children that are born in the world. If God wants me to have 10 children, then that's how many he wants me to have.

However, this is one of those things that is really not essential in the Christian Faith. This rule almost seems Pharisical! Well God, I never had birth control. . . And him saying, I never knew you.

Edited May 1, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1515616' date='May 1 2008, 12:04 AM']If I DO make the difficult decision to get back on BC, I certainly think that the pharmacist should prescribe me my medicine... as someone who isn't even having sex, I'm not actually preventing any births and so they don't REALLY have a reason to deny me the Rx.

I know my case is rare, but still... these things need to be considered.

I wish there was medicine that JUST regulated your periods and wasn't actually a contraceptive. [/quote]

Just curious, I've heard that some OB/GYNs (the strong pro-life, Catholic types) are usually able to treat these kinds of cases without birth control. Is this something you've tried?

FWIW, if you were married, you could still practice NFP while taking a contraceptive for medical reasons. That way you'd get the spiritual benefits and avoid the risk of unknowingly aborting a child before implantation.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1515795' date='May 1 2008, 10:32 AM']I know, I'm not Catholic, though I don't believe in Birth Control, as it is playing God as it comes to the children that are born in the world. If God wants me to have 10 children, then that's how many he wants me to have.

However, this is one of those things that is really not essential in the Christian Faith. This rule almost seems Pharisical! Well God, I never had birth control. . . And him saying, I never knew you.[/quote]

It was essential to the Christian Faith until 1930-something. It's not about following a rule. Rather, we are recognizing the fundamental mystery and purpose of marriage and the meaning of our lives. If we are disposable at conception, what makes us so irreplaceable as adults? One is not more or less human than the other. If the tiniest form of human life can be "rightly" objectified, why wouldn't I be "right" in objectifying anyone else?

Edited May 1, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1515137' date='Apr 30 2008, 07:42 PM']Love how he was ordered to take an ethics course. Maybe he should be the one teaching it.[/quote]

Amen to that...

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1515819' date='May 1 2008, 03:12 PM']Just curious, I've heard that some OB/GYNs (the strong pro-life, Catholic types) are usually able to treat these kinds of cases without birth control. Is this something you've tried?[/quote]
One More Soul's website lists a lot of them. I finally asked my uncle about such things (he's an OB/GYN), as I'd been on the pill for similar reasons to what Alycin is listing, and he told me of some alternatives. I don't know if they'd work for you, though, Alycin, and I'm sure, from your previous post, that you're looking into everything carefully (and I commend you for that!)
[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1515819' date='May 1 2008, 03:12 PM']FWIW, if you were married, you could still practice NFP while taking a contraceptive for medical reasons. That way you'd get the spiritual benefits and avoid the risk of unknowingly aborting a child before implantation.[/quote]
Not necessarily. I thought that would be possible as well, but the pill alters the cervical mucus, so you can't tell from that sign if you're ovulating or not. I'm not sure if it also effects temps, as I didn't check temps. BTW, the cervical mucus can be really hard to read when coming off the pill, too. I didn't show signs of fertility even though I was ovulating when I came off the pill.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1515819' date='May 1 2008, 09:12 AM']Just curious, I've heard that some OB/GYNs (the strong pro-life, Catholic types) are usually able to treat these kinds of cases without birth control. Is this something you've tried?

FWIW, if you were married, you could still practice NFP while taking a contraceptive for medical reasons. That way you'd get the spiritual benefits and avoid the risk of unknowingly aborting a child before implantation.
It was essential to the Christian Faith until 1930-something. It's not about following a rule. Rather, we are recognizing the fundamental mystery and purpose of marriage and the meaning of our lives. If we are disposable at conception, what makes us so irreplaceable as adults? One is not more or less human than the other. If the tiniest form of human life can be "rightly" objectified, why wouldn't I be "right" in objectifying anyone else?[/quote]

I agree with you that we shouldn't use Birth Control, as it is a way we play God. We decided how many children we have, rather than letting God do the decisions for us. Would he give us any situation that we couldn't handle, No.

However, I don't think if people choose to do that, we should stand in their way. As I said - I would say, It is against my beliefs to provide you this prescription, so where would you like me to send it?

Forcing people to do what God would have them to do is wrong, because it takes away a persons free will, a gift God gave all of us.

[kujo]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1515616' date='May 1 2008, 12:04 AM']Im glad you brought up this point.

Males, stop reading now because this is girly yuck talk. lol.

I have always been very irregular. I started my period when I was 10 so it's not an, "oh, give it time" thing. I was put on birth control by my doctor last year because the irregularity got to an alarming point. I didn't have a period for 2, 3 months, and then I'd have a period that lasted 2 weeks, sometimes longer.

I stopped taking the BC after my periods became regular, and they stayed regular for 3 months. Then they started going back to being completely random. I had my last period the first part of January. I have been trying to decide what to do, whether to get back on BC or not. I know it's unhealthy to not menstruate for months at a time, and when I have those super-long periods, I become anemic.

If I DO make the difficult decision to get back on BC, I certainly think that the pharmacist should prescribe me my medicine... as someone who isn't even having sex, I'm not actually preventing any births and so they don't REALLY have a reason to deny me the Rx.

I know my case is rare, but still... these things need to be considered.

I wish there was medicine that JUST regulated your periods and wasn't actually a contraceptive. [/quote]

Yeah, I've heard about this a lot actually (I lived with 5 women growing up). One of my younger sisters has a similar problem, having gotten her period when she was 11 and it being extremely irregular since, and her doctor suggested she go on BC. At the time, I was freaking out, wanting to storm into his office and burn him at the stake for suggesting such a thing to my baby sister. But then my priest suggested I read Pope Paul VI's [i]Humane Vitae[/i]:

[quote]On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever. - [i]Humane Vitae [/i]#15[/quote]

As you said, you can feel justified in using BC if it's necessary. And, since you are not going to be using it for its [b]other[/b] use, you've got nothing to worry about. But, still...I'll be praying for you and your decision.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1515795' date='May 1 2008, 10:32 AM']After reading the story, I have to say he messed up. He should have told his employer that he wouldn't dispense the contraceptives because he has religious reasons to be against it.

Another thing to note, is his refusal to help. I'll be honest, that is a little self-righteous. My religious beliefs says you are sinning. I'm going to force you to believe like me! His zeal was a little over the top. He should have been a little like Pilate about this, send the prescription to another Pharmacy for it to be filled, and then wash his hands of the matter.

What I would have done, I would have said, sorry maam, this is against my religious beliefs, however, if you want me to send the prescription to another pharmacy I will do so. Where would you like me to send it?[/quote]

I agree, dude. His reaction seems a little bit like someone trying to draw attention to himself. Actually, kinda reminds me of Peter's premature declaration of who Jesus really was. I can identify with this guy because I have the tendency to get carried away in a similar manner. I am so excited to do the right thing, that I stumble over my words and feet while I'm trying to do it, inevitably leading me to messing it all up. Still, you're right: a) he should've informed his employer of his moral objections, and b) he should've carried out his actions with a bit more sensitivity.

[picchick]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1515616' date='Apr 30 2008, 11:04 PM']Im glad you brought up this point.

Males, stop reading now because this is girly yuck talk. lol.

I have always been very irregular. I started my period when I was 10 so it's not an, "oh, give it time" thing. I was put on birth control by my doctor last year because the irregularity got to an alarming point. I didn't have a period for 2, 3 months, and then I'd have a period that lasted 2 weeks, sometimes longer.

I stopped taking the BC after my periods became regular, and they stayed regular for 3 months. Then they started going back to being completely random. I had my last period the first part of January. I have been trying to decide what to do, whether to get back on BC or not. I know it's unhealthy to not menstruate for months at a time, and when I have those super-long periods, I become anemic.

If I DO make the difficult decision to get back on BC, I certainly think that the pharmacist should prescribe me my medicine... as someone who isn't even having sex, I'm not actually preventing any births and so they don't REALLY have a reason to deny me the Rx.

I know my case is rare, but still... these things need to be considered.

I wish there was medicine that JUST regulated your periods and wasn't actually a contraceptive. [/quote]

I agree with you.

There are many cases where women need to take BC and it is not to prevent children. There is a classmate of mine who needs to it prevent cysts. Now althought most cysts resolve spontaneously, her do not. She had to have several surgeries to prevent them. For her it is a matter of this: Have them removed and not have any more children or go on BC. She chose the latter because she and her husband want more children.

However, I think that this is overshadowed by those who take it for BC reasons.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='picchick' post='1515868' date='May 1 2008, 04:37 PM']I agree with you.

There are many cases where women need to take BC and it is not to prevent children. There is a classmate of mine who needs to it prevent cysts. Now althought most cysts resolve spontaneously, her do not. She had to have several surgeries to prevent them. For her it is a matter of this: Have them removed and not have any more children or go on BC. She chose the latter because she and her husband want more children.

However, I think that this is overshadowed by those who take it for BC reasons.[/quote]
Yeah, the pill is often prescribed as a hormonal treatment instead of prescribing other hormones, from what I can see. My sister was originally put on the pill to keep her endo in check (her endo fed off of estrogen, and they were trying to keep from doing more surgery - didn't work, unfortunately), and then they stepped her up to higher doses of hormones. Is it just that the pill has lower doses of hormones than other hormonal treatments, and that's why it's tried first?

[kujo]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1515882' date='May 1 2008, 12:45 PM']Yeah, the pill is often prescribed as a hormonal treatment instead of prescribing other hormones, from what I can see. My sister was originally put on the pill to keep her endo in check (her endo fed off of estrogen, and they were trying to keep from doing more surgery - didn't work, unfortunately), and then they stepped her up to higher doses of hormones. Is it just that the pill has lower doses of hormones than other hormonal treatments, and that's why it's tried first?[/quote]

I imagine that it probably has something to do with the fact that it's a cheap and readily-available way to solve the problems you speak of. Plus, and this certainly isn't something we like, but I'm sure most doctors figure that the girl will be on BC at some point [i]anyway[/i] so why not start her soon, get her cycle and hormones regulated, and "protect" her. That last reason smells of elderberries, but such is life, eh?