Do You Agree With Income Tax

[CatherineM]

I don't mind paying taxes to build a bridge on the moon. That sounds kind of cool. My husband wrote a paper once about using lava tubes on the moon as habitats.

I guess my problem is that I don't care about money. Never have. Drives my husband more nuts than he already is (and he is certifiable). I just never worry about money, so I have trouble understanding why everyone else gets so worked up over it. I'm not saying you don't have the right to, I'm just saying I don't have that thing in my brain that most people do. I guess it would be like explaining what purple is to a blind person. My dad used to get worked up about paying taxes, and it was like he was speaking Greek to me. I just never "got" it.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='StColette' post='1513931' date='Apr 29 2008, 11:57 AM']I know what all the different soil nutrient deficiencies look like and how to fix them! Aren't you glad you married me! I can also milk cows! Let's go live in the country![/quote]
Yes...we can call it...Athanasia...and we can come up with a cover-firm...Chesterbel Enterprises...

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1513969' date='Apr 29 2008, 12:28 PM']... my crazy plans sound better and better all the time, huh?[/quote]
I don't know what you're talking about.

Want to buy stock in my corporation, Chesterbel Enterprises?

[MissScripture]

[quote name='kujo' post='1514019' date='Apr 29 2008, 01:19 PM']The latter. I think that there should be a flat retail tax that doesn't include food and houses/land. The easiest way to collect MORE money from society without penalizing individuals with obscene things like taking more money from them when they get a pay raise.[/quote]
What about clothes? Would clothes be taxed?

[kujo]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1514447' date='Apr 29 2008, 08:28 PM']What about clothes? Would clothes be taxed?[/quote]

Absolutely. I understand the position that clothes are a necessity much like food and housing, but I think that people rarely purchase clothes with a utilitarian mindset. Go into American Eagle, Aeropostale, Abercrombie, etc. and tell me that those clothes are "necessary"...hell, tell me that they're even practical!

[MissScripture]

What about people who purchase the most expensive brands of foods, and buy everything pre-made? Is that necessary?

[dairygirl4u2c]

www.fairtax.org

with the fairtax as proposed my mainstream.. poorer people get a pay back for what they pay out up to a certain amount. so even if it's a necessity, it does not matter cause poor get pay back refund.

effectively, that pay back also creates a staired income scale, cause everyone gets the pay back, but the richer are affected by it less, such taht they pay closer to the 23% flat sales tax in the end.

the flaw that many don't know about,,,, or won't say... it that while it's progressive in that sense, and it appears on the surface to be legit.... the rich don't pay more as a percentage, they only pay more in dollars. this is because they dont spend enough: if A has 1000 and spends 100, and B has 10000 and spends 500, A still spent more than B did as a percentage.

so while it might be promoted as progressive.... it's really progressively regressive. ultimately regressive. that means it's even more rich friendly that the run of hte mill flat tax that was the bigger things before the fair tax came along cause at leat the flat tax isn't regressive.

Edited April 29, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[Socrates]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1513751' date='Apr 29 2008, 12:35 AM']Even if you believe that income tax is some kind of basic element of social justice (which is utterly preposterous to my mind) I hope you would admit that the specifics of the tax system are up for debate. I tend to believe that an individual's labor is their private property and that the taxation of private labor is an abuse of government. At the very least it is short of the ideal for a free and humanistic society.[/quote]
Agreed 100%

I'm all for abolishing the IRS (infernal revenue service).

We should remember that the U.S. federal government had no power to tax the incomes of citizens until 1913, when the sixteenth amendment to the constitution was ratified. (Previously, attempts by the federal government to tax income had been ruled unconstitutional).

Those claiming a federal income tax is a necessity for our country should remember that our country went without one for almost 140 years!

While people will quibble about who is paying their "fair share" of taxes, many today unfortunately never call into question the fact that the government is taking a substantial amount of [i]anybody's[/i] private income. Nor do they ever seem to question the underlying assumption that more federal government spending is the answer to all life's problems. No one would consider me rich by any means, yet Uncle Sam takes an obscene portion of my meager income. And the calls for further "soaking the rich" are simply the politics of envy - ignoring the reality that "soaking the rich" actually does nothing to make the rest of us any better off.
And the taxing of incomes seems based on the assumption that government bureaucrats know better what to do with our hard-earned income than we do.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Socrates

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1514616' date='Apr 29 2008, 08:53 PM']Agreed 100%

I'm all for abolishing the IRS (infernal revenue service).

We should remember that the U.S. federal government had no power to tax the incomes of citizens until 1913, when the sixteenth amendment to the constitution was ratified. (Previously, attempts by the federal government to tax income had been ruled unconstitutional).

Those claiming a federal income tax is a necessity for our country should remember that our country went without one for almost 140 years!

While people will quibble about who is paying their "fair share" of taxes, many today unfortunately never call into question the fact that the government is taking a substantial amount of [i]anybody's[/i] private income. Nor do they ever seem to question the underlying assumption that more federal government spending is the answer to all life's problems. No one would consider me rich by any means, yet Uncle Sam takes an obscene portion of my meager income. And the calls for further "soaking the rich" are simply the politics of envy - ignoring the reality that "soaking the rich" actually does nothing to make the rest of us any better off.
And the taxing of incomes seems based on the assumption that government bureaucrats know better what to do with our hard-earned income than we do.[/quote]

I hardly ever agree with you, but I can't help but applaud you.

God did tell us that could be a possibility if we allowed leadership to get to powerful. 1st Samuel 8:5-18, God said leaders would take our lands, and take a tenth of our produce in taxes!

And yet, many good sheep listen to people say, give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, without realizing who it is really going too, and the fact this is all based on loans given by the central banks, which have interest, which is breaking our economies to line the pockets of some greedy scumbags who have probably killed two American Presidents and warned another for meddeling in their affairs!

Wow, great system!

There will be a time that we will get all that back to us though. God did say he would restore the years that the Cancour worm has stolen from us. I have a feeling it is a direct prophecy against this system. I don't know how everything will change, or what will bring that change about, but it will happen one day.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1514468' date='Apr 29 2008, 06:42 PM']www.fairtax.org

with the fairtax as proposed my mainstream.. poorer people get a pay back for what they pay out up to a certain amount. so even if it's a necessity, it does not matter cause poor get pay back refund.

effectively, that pay back also creates a staired income scale, cause everyone gets the pay back, but the richer are affected by it less, such taht they pay closer to the 23% flat sales tax in the end.

the flaw that many don't know about,,,, or won't say... it that while it's progressive in that sense, and it appears on the surface to be legit.... the rich don't pay more as a percentage, they only pay more in dollars. this is because they dont spend enough: if A has 1000 and spends 100, and B has 10000 and spends 500, A still spent more than B did as a percentage.

so while it might be promoted as progressive.... it's really progressively regressive. ultimately regressive. that means it's even more rich friendly that the run of hte mill flat tax that was the bigger things before the fair tax came along cause at leat the flat tax isn't regressive.[/quote]

However, it can still be effective. I don't spend all my money. For savers, like myself, it would be a life send. I save as much as possible to begin with. If didn't get taxed on my income, I would probably be able to save more money.

[CatherineM]

There was a report on the news tonight that the average American carries $8500 just of credit card debt. You may be in the minority when it comes to saving money.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1514616' date='Apr 29 2008, 09:53 PM']And the taxing of incomes seems based on the assumption that government bureaucrats know better what to do with our hard-earned income than we do.[/quote]
Well, of course, if we could just learn from them how to spend our income wisely, the whole country would be like Amsterdam. What's not to envy?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[url="http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/"]http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/[/url]

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1514770' date='Apr 29 2008, 11:18 PM']There was a report on the news tonight that the average American carries $8500 just of credit card debt. You may be in the minority when it comes to saving money.[/quote]
If people didn't have income tax, they could probably start paying off small amounts of that debt slowly, but much faster than if you had your income taxed.

[CatherineM]

They were also interviewing people about how they were going to spend their extra tax credit money. None were going to pay off any debt with their rebate.