God's Will

[picchick]

[quote name='Deb' post='1523214' date='May 9 2008, 11:35 AM']Well, I hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) to have to say this but, your experience is probably because of the difference between a Pentacostal church and the Catholic Church. There is a big difference between a preacher in that church and a Priest in the Catholic Church.
Priests are chosen by God and they are changed forever when they are consecrated. They have apostolic succession and the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the protection of the Blessed Mother. Do Priests sin? Of course, they are human. Even the saints sinned. We cannot help but sin. However, they answer to the CHURCH. They don't build empires out of their vocation.

No, I will not [i]eventually[/i] see the same pattern as what you did. I will never believe that. I can say with complete certainty that I will never ever refer to anyone in my church as a filthy liar or a satanist. It just will never happen. Those are not terms I would use to begin with and that behaviour would never have the chance to grow in my church.


See, in my church there is no preaching. Priests give homilies. The homilies are to teach us how to apply the words of the readings of that day to our lives. Their intent is to show us how to bring Christ into our life and to make him the center of our life. The homilies do not contain content outside the parameters of the teachings of the Catholic Church. The homilies are filled with scripture and with quotes from saints, who are after all, the gospel lived out in our lives. The homilies do not discuss politics or community events. The homilies contain what we need to take with us when the mass is ended and the Priest says, Go in peace, to love and serve the Lord. We are being told to go out and bring that gospel to everyone in our service to the Lord.

Priests do not make a lot of money. My priest belongs to a diocesan order and those in it take a vow of poverty along with their other priestly vows. My church does not talk about money. My church has no debt. If the church cannot afford something, they don't buy it. The ministries at our church do not generate revenue. We have no fund raisers EVER.

I have spent 51 years of my life railing against every form of authority. I have never let anyone walk on me. When I discovered my husband's betrayal our divorce was final in the courts in 60 DAYS! We are still friends and I will always love him. I am not some air headed, shrinking violet who is led around by holy people. I am someone who has been touched by the hand of GOD and is being led by GOD, nobody else.
GOD also delivered me to my specific church with this priest and at the very first mass performed a miracle that made it very clear that this is the priest I am to follow on my path to sanctity.

I am very sorry that you were led into that church. From your tone and words in describing that church, I think I understand more why you are not a fan of organized religion. I think you must have been very very hurt and disillusioned.

I do believe that one must be open minded. I had actually attended about every form of religion there is before my conversion. My fervor for my religion, my church and my priests is a direct result of my seeing the incredible love that is being poured out by God every moment on these people who have become my family. It is not blindly being led by anyone other than God. The things I see and feel are not coming from me, I would not be capable of producing them. They are beyond my human comprehnsion. They are coming from the Holy Spirit. He is leading me.

Your statement that you cannot trust anyone at face value at any time in life, is one of the saddest things I have ever heard. I cannot even imagine living like that. I have been through hell and back in my life and if anyone had a reason not to trust, it would be me. I don't think I would even want to leave my house in the morning if I could not walk out with total trust and belief that God is with me, that he will protect me and he will lead me where he wants me to go. If I trust someone and they don't kill me, it's all good. What is the worst that can happen if you trust everyone? It all comes back 100 fold. It is all good.

I don't as a rule even think about obeying anyone except my Lord but, my Lord wants me to show obedience, to authority, to my employer, to my priest. (not my strong suit.) I can tell you that if my priest told me to sell everything I owned and to go out into the streets to beg for money to fund the church, I would do that. That is the strength of my faith. I never expect to be asked to do anything against God. If I was, I would say no. That simple.

Please read this as I wrote it, with loving intentions to show you that your experience sounds terrible. It is not my experience with the Catholic Church and I cannot ever envision it becoming so.[/quote]

I agree with everything here.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1522833' date='May 8 2008, 11:59 PM']Eventually, you will see the same patterns, and you will start to realize not everybody who sits around you in mass is someone you can trust. God wants us to be respectful of authority, but without a sense of they should be accountable, they can walk all over you. You have to be open-minded enough to trust what they say, while critical enough to evaluate it. You can't trust anybody at face value any time in life. You have to check it out, and the only way is through scripture. Are they living up to what Scripture says, if so, then they are good. If they don't live up to what Scripture says, offer a gentle rebuke, and when they are doing the exact opposite of scripture, get ready for warfare, because that person is not what they say they are.[/quote]
THis is where you go wrong. Anybody can say they are obeying Scripture while having a totally different interpretation of the same verses. Thats why we have the Church, who is the pillar and foundation, not the Scripture which came FROM the Church. Scripture is a part of Tradition, but not all of it. Otherwise its your interpretation vs theirs. Only the Church has the 2000+ of teaching and preaching authority.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Deb' post='1523214' date='May 9 2008, 11:35 AM']See, in my church there is no preaching. Priests give homilies. The homilies are to teach us how to apply the words of the readings of that day to our lives. Their intent is to show us how to bring Christ into our life and to make him the center of our life. The homilies do not contain content outside the parameters of the teachings of the Catholic Church. The homilies are filled with scripture and with quotes from saints, who are after all, the gospel lived out in our lives. The homilies do not discuss politics or community events. The homilies contain what we need to take with us when the mass is ended and the Priest says, Go in peace, to love and serve the Lord. We are being told to go out and bring that gospel to everyone in our service to the Lord.[/quote]

That can't be right. Homilies are supposed to begin with a forced joke, continue with a story that's loosely connected to the readings, and close with a couple of nice thoughts about being a good person.

Right?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Deb' post='1522381' date='May 8 2008, 03:16 PM']I find it so very easy to trust the church. God plucked me from unbelief and the depths of despair and guided me directly to the Catholic Church. How could I not trust the entity I was led to? I have yet to know a Priest or Bishop that I would not trust.
I have always been trusting of people though so that might just be my personality but, I cannot imagine any of the people I know in the church leading me astray in any way.
I have no hesitition or second thoughts about my trust in the church.[/quote]

That's really awesome, by the way. I guess growing up around a lot of nominal Christians in high school, and seeing how they fell away in college, my opinion of a person's trustworthiness isn't affected much by whether they're a Christian or not. Still, I put my trust in the Church and the sacraments, and not necessarily in those within the Church or those who administer the sacraments until they earn it.

But, I may be a bit too cynical at times.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1523243' date='May 9 2008, 11:41 AM']THis is where you go wrong. Anybody can say they are obeying Scripture while having a totally different interpretation of the same verses. Thats why we have the Church, who is the pillar and foundation, not the Scripture which came FROM the Church. Scripture is a part of Tradition, but not all of it. Otherwise its your interpretation vs theirs. Only the Church has the 2000+ of teaching and preaching authority.[/quote]

What you just said doesn't make sense?

So, if someone said, Kenneth Copeland is a man of God, and then someone said, wait a minute, the bible says to avoid men who say to gain is Godliness, you wouldn't agree.

Or how about if someone says Yoga is Idolatry, and then someone says - you're mentally disturbed saying that, are not those two people at enmity with each other? Is this not the strife God would say would be between the seed of the serpent, those who choose Satan, and the seed of the woman, Christ and those who choose them?

I wasn't talking about interpreting scriptures, but looking at who people act. Or don't you believe we can see if a tree is evil by looking at its fruits? How can we determine what the fruits of a person except by scripture, which is sharper than a two edge sword discerning the thoughts of the heart!

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Deb' post='1523214' date='May 9 2008, 10:35 AM']Well, I hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) to have to say this but, your experience is probably because of the difference between a Pentacostal church and the Catholic Church. There is a big difference between a preacher in that church and a Priest in the Catholic Church.
Priests are chosen by God and they are changed forever when they are consecrated. They have apostolic succession and the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the protection of the Blessed Mother. Do Priests sin? Of course, they are human. Even the saints sinned. We cannot help but sin. However, they answer to the CHURCH. They don't build empires out of their vocation.

No, I will not [i]eventually[/i] see the same pattern as what you did. I will never believe that. I can say with complete certainty that I will never ever refer to anyone in my church as a filthy liar or a satanist. It just will never happen. Those are not terms I would use to begin with and that behaviour would never have the chance to grow in my church.
See, in my church there is no preaching. Priests give homilies. The homilies are to teach us how to apply the words of the readings of that day to our lives. Their intent is to show us how to bring Christ into our life and to make him the center of our life. The homilies do not contain content outside the parameters of the teachings of the Catholic Church. The homilies are filled with scripture and with quotes from saints, who are after all, the gospel lived out in our lives. The homilies do not discuss politics or community events. The homilies contain what we need to take with us when the mass is ended and the Priest says, Go in peace, to love and serve the Lord. We are being told to go out and bring that gospel to everyone in our service to the Lord.

Priests do not make a lot of money. My priest belongs to a diocesan order and those in it take a vow of poverty along with their other priestly vows. My church does not talk about money. My church has no debt. If the church cannot afford something, they don't buy it. The ministries at our church do not generate revenue. We have no fund raisers EVER.

I have spent 51 years of my life railing against every form of authority. I have never let anyone walk on me. When I discovered my husband's betrayal our divorce was final in the courts in 60 DAYS! We are still friends and I will always love him. I am not some air headed, shrinking violet who is led around by holy people. I am someone who has been touched by the hand of GOD and is being led by GOD, nobody else.
GOD also delivered me to my specific church with this priest and at the very first mass performed a miracle that made it very clear that this is the priest I am to follow on my path to sanctity.

I am very sorry that you were led into that church. From your tone and words in describing that church, I think I understand more why you are not a fan of organized religion. I think you must have been very very hurt and disillusioned.

I do believe that one must be open minded. I had actually attended about every form of religion there is before my conversion. My fervor for my religion, my church and my priests is a direct result of my seeing the incredible love that is being poured out by God every moment on these people who have become my family. It is not blindly being led by anyone other than God. The things I see and feel are not coming from me, I would not be capable of producing them. They are beyond my human comprehnsion. They are coming from the Holy Spirit. He is leading me.

Your statement that you cannot trust anyone at face value at any time in life, is one of the saddest things I have ever heard. I cannot even imagine living like that. I have been through hell and back in my life and if anyone had a reason not to trust, it would be me. I don't think I would even want to leave my house in the morning if I could not walk out with total trust and belief that God is with me, that he will protect me and he will lead me where he wants me to go. If I trust someone and they don't kill me, it's all good. What is the worst that can happen if you trust everyone? It all comes back 100 fold. It is all good.

I don't as a rule even think about obeying anyone except my Lord but, my Lord wants me to show obedience, to authority, to my employer, to my priest. (not my strong suit.) I can tell you that if my priest told me to sell everything I owned and to go out into the streets to beg for money to fund the church, I would do that. That is the strength of my faith. I never expect to be asked to do anything against God. If I was, I would say no. That simple.

Please read this as I wrote it, with loving intentions to show you that your experience sounds terrible. It is not my experience with the Catholic Church and I cannot ever envision it becoming so.[/quote]

Thank you for your blessing there sister.

[Deb]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1523409' date='May 9 2008, 05:40 PM']That can't be right. Homilies are supposed to begin with a forced joke, continue with a story that's loosely connected to the readings, and close with a couple of nice thoughts about being a good person.

Right?[/quote]

Hmmm. That is how they are around my part of town. I will say though that when I was in Medjugorje, the first mass there was led by a Bishop from Ireland. I almost got up and walked out of the church, I was so incensed with the first ten minutes of his homily. I thought he was a heretic. He ended up making a point after droning on for fifteen minutes but, he was so bad at getting it out. The next day was a priest from Ireland and he told so many jokes I could not tell if I was in church or a comedy club. I was pretty disappointed in both of them.

On Divine Mercy Sunday, the priest that came with us (from North Dakota) celebrated mass just for twenty of us in a small chapel at an orphanage and his homily moved me to tears, it was so beautiful and righteous. So, maybe as out of sync the U.S. seems to be in a lot of things, we may be a little more in sync with the way the church should be.

But really, my priest says that you can be in a church with a thousand people and a great homilist or you can be in a church with two people and a priest who can barely talk and if the Eucharist is valid, you have everything you need.

Come to my church. My priest is an awesome teacher via the homily!!

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1523462' date='May 9 2008, 06:54 PM']Thank you for your blessing there sister.[/quote]


I wanted to add that in responses that the Blessed Mother made in her messages in Medjugorje, she said that in the eyes of the father, all children on this earth are equal. We here are the ones who have made all the divisions on earth. She said that God knows what is in each of our hearts and he will be the only one who will be making judgements and he will make those on how we love him and how we follow his commandments. We have no right and no reason to do so. On anyone, in any religion. Those who do not believe in God and denounce him will go to hell. That was pretty plainly stated.

We are to live in peace with each other. We are to love each other. We are to forgive each other everything. Chastisment is coming and it will be in my lifetime most likely. Her key messages are to pray, go to confession, go to mass and fast. She has said the rosary is the most powerful weapon against Satan, it can stop wars and it can override the laws of nature. The rosary is not only for Catholics. It is for all people in the world. It is the most powerful prayer there is.

I have no idea why I am babbling on about this. I have just read some very powerful stuff on medjugorje. Since I returned from there one month ago, my spiritual life is accelerating once again, I can see the changes in my family and those close to me, graces are being poured out just like the first time and as I truly believe in what is happening there, I felt like I should share.

We ARE all children of God and the petty things we squabble about are not of God's will. In light of another thread here, God really isn't all that concerned about what music we sing to him in church. He is more concerned about where our heart and mind are and that we are there.

Mir,

Deb

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Deb' post='1523664' date='May 10 2008, 04:27 AM']Hmmm. That is how they are around my part of town. I will say though that when I was in Medjugorje, the first mass there was led by a Bishop from Ireland. I almost got up and walked out of the church, I was so incensed with the first ten minutes of his homily. I thought he was a heretic. He ended up making a point after droning on for fifteen minutes but, he was so bad at getting it out. The next day was a priest from Ireland and he told so many jokes I could not tell if I was in church or a comedy club. I was pretty disappointed in both of them.[/quote]
One of my Irish priests was quite fond of telling "cute stories", but not during the homily.

[Deb]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1523767' date='May 10 2008, 03:37 AM']One of my Irish priests was quite fond of telling "cute stories", but not during the homily.[/quote]


I thought it was different. I am not against a laugh during the homily, especially when an example that is familiar to all of us is used to show us our frailty or weakness but, these were just jokes. Maybe this priest thought he might never have another chance to do a homily in front of 2000 people from all corners of the world.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Deb' post='1523794' date='May 10 2008, 12:49 PM']I thought it was different. I am not against a laugh during the homily, especially when an example that is familiar to all of us is used to show us our frailty or weakness but, these were just jokes. Maybe this priest thought he might never have another chance to do a homily in front of 2000 people from all corners of the world.[/quote]
Oh I agree with you. I was just sharing that about my priest. (he's the one with whom I met while converting)

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Deb' post='1523664' date='May 9 2008, 11:27 PM']But really, my priest says that you can be in a church with a thousand people and a great homilist or you can be in a church with two people and a priest who can barely talk and if the Eucharist is valid, you have everything you need.[/quote]

That is true, and why I'm Catholic. Still, I've always felt that too many Catholics use the Eucharist as a crutch because it is the central and high point of the Mass, where the sermon is usually the focus of a Protestant service. Seems to me that we should hold ourselves to an even higher standard.

But there are a few priests around here who can preach and, thankfully, our new archbishop is an excellent homilist.

[Deb]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1524140' date='May 10 2008, 03:53 PM']That is true, and why I'm Catholic. Still, I've always felt that too many Catholics use the Eucharist as a crutch because it is the central and high point of the Mass, where the sermon is usually the focus of a Protestant service. Seems to me that we should hold ourselves to an even higher standard.

But there are a few priests around here who can preach and, thankfully, our new archbishop is an excellent homilist.[/quote]

I think his point was that not all priests have the same gifts but, the Eucharist will still be valid. I will say that my priest is a wonderful homilist. I (and many others) get tapes of his homilies. I have learned so much about the gospel and the faith and how to live my life just by listening to those. He also puts out a series every year of cd's, one a month for six or seven months that addresses just one topic. We just got number seven regarding the mass itself. He breaks each piece of the mass down and gives about a half hour lecture on it, what everything means, its historical background etc.
Last year was the Holy Spirit. They are great! One of the members I know. sits farther back and she takes notes of the homilies and writes down the scripture references he gives or the Saints or Popes he quotes ! I couldn't see myself doing that.

I have only heard our new Archbishop once but, he was pretty great. I think the homily is so important because it really does send us out to think about the gospel reading and to figure out how to use it in our own lives and for others.

Of course, I love every second of the mass. I just wish it l was longer. Ours is usually about an hour and fifteen for Sunday and about a half hour for daily. I would like a half hour of silence just after communion.

Pentecost mass coming up! Let the Holy Spirit Fall.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Deb