God's Will

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1514050' date='Apr 29 2008, 12:55 PM']Maybe God picks people because they have a special gift that he wants to make use of. I know that many of those chosen have very hard roads, and God picks those that are strong enough to shoulder the burden.[/quote]

Actually, once upon a time, I use to think that.

Now, I don't think God cares about what special gift some has that he wants to make use of.

I think these great men of God were used that way because they were humble. They realized they were nothing compared to God. Their holiness was nothing compared to God's. They strength was nothing compared to God's. They wisdom was nothing compared to God's. Their knowledge and intelligence were nothing compared to God's. Their compassion was nothing compared to God's.

And because they have completely emptied themselves of any Ego, God was able to use them in miraculous ways, because that person would never glory in what they had been a part of.

So really, it isn't about special gifts, its about releasing yourself from that mindset, and being totally humble before God, saying I am utterly nothing. Everything I can do is but dung. I can only do things through Christ Jesus. Unless I am connected to him, I can do nothing!

Edited April 30, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[CatherineM]

I think humility is one of God's greatest gifts. A humble, still, quiet, prayerful person, may just be able to hear God, while the rest of us can't because our lives are too noisy.

[picchick]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1514700' date='Apr 29 2008, 11:00 PM']Actually, once upon a time, I use to think that.

Now, I don't think God cares about what special gift some has that he wants to make use of.

I think these great men of God were used that way because they were humble. They realized they were nothing compared to God. Their holiness was nothing compared to God's. They strength was nothing compared to God's. They wisdom was nothing compared to God's. Their knowledge and intelligence were nothing compared to God's. Their compassion was nothing compared to God's.

And because they have completely emptied themselves of any Ego, God was able to use them in miraculous ways, because that person would never glory in what they had been a part of.

So really, it isn't about special gifts, its about releasing yourself from that mindset, and being totally humble before God, saying I am utterly nothing. Everything I can do is but dung. I can only do things through Christ Jesus. Unless I am connected to him, I can do nothing![/quote]

That doesn't answer the question as to why God chose them to humble them? Why doesn't God humble your "enemies" to help them come to know His Will and repent? This is more what I am asking about in my quesiton.

Edited April 30, 2008 by picchick

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='picchick' post='1513807' date='Apr 29 2008, 09:35 AM']However, my point is that if why did God choose to reveal Himself clearly to these Saints and not to the world as a whole? If we are all called to be saints should He not also reveal Himself clearly to those who do not believe?

One could argue, I guess, that these saints had a special part to play in the grand scheme of things. But do we not also have a special part to play in God's Will?[/quote]

I've thought about that myself many times. The answer is simple: He does. The Church teaches that God makes available to every person the grace to believe the Truth (at least as far as they have knowledge of it). Without the grace to believe, we can question any miraculous event. Recall the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. God told the rich man that if his family did not believe Moses and the prophets, neither would they believe if they saw a man rise from the dead.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1512404' date='Apr 28 2008, 10:54 AM']There are things that really prevent me from totally trusting a church that says it is the only true way to God. There's something just not right about that. BTW, I am not saying there are dozens of ways to God either.[/quote]

Yet you trust a man who says he is the only true way to God?

Trust is difficult though... I find it challenging to trust the Church myself.

[CatherineM]

I don't have trouble trusting the church. I find comfort in that being one thing I don't have to worry about. There are so many things in life that are beyond my control, and I know that I can just offer those things up. Turn over your doubt and fear. It's great for the blood pressure too.

[picchick]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1514983' date='Apr 30 2008, 10:27 AM']Yet you trust a man who says he is the only true way to God?

Trust is difficult though... I find it challenging to trust the Church myself.[/quote]


I am wondering if you really mean the Church or those who govern the Church.

Sometimes it is hard to trust those who are in the Church (priests, lay ministers, bishops) but I don't that the faith itself has anything to warrant a caution towards.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1514732' date='Apr 29 2008, 10:28 PM']That doesn't answer the question as to why God chose them to humble them? Why doesn't God humble your "enemies" to help them come to know His Will and repent? This is more what I am asking about in my quesiton.[/quote]

That is a mystery to me. I don't know why he doesn't humble everybody, except for one reason. If he humbled each and every single one of us, then we would all be forced to do something. God doesn't really work that way. He's a gentleman, and wants people to come after him, before he humbles them.

My friend really hit the nail on the head once, and this quote of his will always reverberate in my mind, so I trust its annointing.

God is pretty much the richest person in the universe, because everything is his. Now, humanity is always selfish. Think of the Anna Nicole Smiths in the world, marrying much older men who have lots of money. Now if that is how humanity behaves, than most of us would insincerly court God's love just because he owns everything, than it is God's wisdom to hide himself from the ones who would abuse him.

So God is looking for those who love him, whether it be in the truth or in deception, so he can show himself to them, and bring them to the knowledge of repentance. He's just weeding out those who would use him for their gain, and not because they love God. Would you Meg?

If you were rich, would you like a guy who courted you because you or your family had millions, and he really didn't love you?

God's the same, because he made us in his image, so some instincts are the same.

[XIX]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1514976' date='Apr 30 2008, 11:19 AM']God told the rich man that if his family did not believe Moses and the prophets, neither would they believe if they saw a man rise from the dead.[/quote]
I was just thinking of that.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1514983' date='Apr 30 2008, 09:27 AM']Yet you trust a man who says he is the only true way to God?

Trust is difficult though... I find it challenging to trust the Church myself.[/quote]

Because Jesus has always proven to be true to me.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='picchick' post='1515195' date='Apr 30 2008, 03:52 PM']I am wondering if you really mean the Church or those who govern the Church.

Sometimes it is hard to trust those who are in the Church (priests, lay ministers, bishops) but I don't that the faith itself has anything to warrant a caution towards.[/quote]

No, I mean the Church. I do trust her, but I find in discernment that a greater level of trust is required than to be a layperson. You are basically trusting the Church with everything that is you. It feels to me kinda diving off a 30 foot cliff. Some people abandon themselves to the will of gravity with hardly a second thought. I'm more like the kid who needs to sit back and think about this for a bit.

I'm definitely aiming for that ideal, but in the meantime, I'm not going to say I fully trust the Church if I'm not yet willing to fully act on it.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1515535' date='Apr 30 2008, 10:26 PM']Because Jesus has always proven to be true to me.[/quote]

And if the Church has always proven to be true to me, does that make me right too?

[Deb]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1518076' date='May 4 2008, 09:20 AM']No, I mean the Church. I do trust her, but I find in discernment that a greater level of trust is required than to be a layperson. You are basically trusting the Church with everything that is you. It feels to me kinda diving off a 30 foot cliff. Some people abandon themselves to the will of gravity with hardly a second thought. I'm more like the kid who needs to sit back and think about this for a bit.

I'm definitely aiming for that ideal, but in the meantime, I'm not going to say I fully trust the Church if I'm not yet willing to fully act on it.[/quote]

I find it so very easy to trust the church. God plucked me from unbelief and the depths of despair and guided me directly to the Catholic Church. How could I not trust the entity I was led to? I have yet to know a Priest or Bishop that I would not trust.
I have always been trusting of people though so that might just be my personality but, I cannot imagine any of the people I know in the church leading me astray in any way.
I have no hesitition or second thoughts about my trust in the church.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Deb' post='1522381' date='May 8 2008, 02:16 PM']I find it so very easy to trust the church. God plucked me from unbelief and the depths of despair and guided me directly to the Catholic Church. How could I not trust the entity I was led to? I have yet to know a Priest or Bishop that I would not trust.
I have always been trusting of people though so that might just be my personality but, I cannot imagine any of the people I know in the church leading me astray in any way.
I have no hesitition or second thoughts about my trust in the church.[/quote]

Hi Deb,

Can I relate something to you. When I became a new convert to Christ at that Pentecostal Church I first went too, for the first few years, I thought that too. I looked at all the leadership and thought, they are such great and godly men, and I should obey everything they say, because I trusted them, because God had to have chosen them to preach, right!

After I left, I have come to realize that the senior pastor is nothing more than a Satanist who is trying to guilt trip his flock to give them their thithes and offerings so he could grow rich, and his family are a bunch of filthy liars who couldn't be trusted. The reason I know this, because the big givers from my old church were the ones in charge of the music ministry, the multi-media ministry, the youth ministry, and every other ministry at my old church. He would always talk about how we should give, give, give to be blessed and how the Liberals were evil and Conservatives are always good!

The Associate Pastor was the only one I actually trust, though I am not talking to him at the moment. God has closed that door for the moment. He had only one thing he could preach over the pulpit, and that was Christ Crucified! I never had one time where I didn't listen to his preaching and I wouldn't be weeping and crying out to God for forgiveness.

But I left my church because it is controlled by evil men who want people's money.

Eventually, you will see the same patterns, and you will start to realize not everybody who sits around you in mass is someone you can trust. God wants us to be respectful of authority, but without a sense of they should be accountable, they can walk all over you. You have to be open-minded enough to trust what they say, while critical enough to evaluate it. You can't trust anybody at face value any time in life. You have to check it out, and the only way is through scripture. Are they living up to what Scripture says, if so, then they are good. If they don't live up to what Scripture says, offer a gentle rebuke, and when they are doing the exact opposite of scripture, get ready for warfare, because that person is not what they say they are.

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1522833' date='May 8 2008, 10:59 PM']Hi Deb,

Can I relate something to you. When I became a new convert to Christ at that Pentecostal Church I first went too, for the first few years, I thought that too. I looked at all the leadership and thought, they are such great and godly men, and I should obey everything they say, because I trusted them, because God had to have chosen them to preach, right!

After I left, I have come to realize that the senior pastor is nothing more than a Satanist who is trying to guilt trip his flock to give them their thithes and offerings so he could grow rich, and his family are a bunch of filthy liars who couldn't be trusted. The reason I know this, because the big givers from my old church were the ones in charge of the music ministry, the multi-media ministry, the youth ministry, and every other ministry at my old church. He would always talk about how we should give, give, give to be blessed and how the Liberals were evil and Conservatives are always good!

The Associate Pastor was the only one I actually trust, though I am not talking to him at the moment. God has closed that door for the moment. He had only one thing he could preach over the pulpit, and that was Christ Crucified! I never had one time where I didn't listen to his preaching and I wouldn't be weeping and crying out to God for forgiveness.

But I left my church because it is controlled by evil men who want people's money.

Eventually, you will see the same patterns, and you will start to realize not everybody who sits around you in mass is someone you can trust. God wants us to be respectful of authority, but without a sense of they should be accountable, they can walk all over you. You have to be open-minded enough to trust what they say, while critical enough to evaluate it. You can't trust anybody at face value any time in life. You have to check it out, and the only way is through scripture. Are they living up to what Scripture says, if so, then they are good. If they don't live up to what Scripture says, offer a gentle rebuke, and when they are doing the exact opposite of scripture, get ready for warfare, because that person is not what they say they are.[/quote]

Well, I hate (don't hate, appreciate) to have to say this but, your experience is probably because of the difference between a Pentacostal church and the Catholic Church. There is a big difference between a preacher in that church and a Priest in the Catholic Church.
Priests are chosen by God and they are changed forever when they are consecrated. They have apostolic succession and the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the protection of the Blessed Mother. Do Priests sin? Of course, they are human. Even the saints sinned. We cannot help but sin. However, they answer to the CHURCH. They don't build empires out of their vocation.

No, I will not [i]eventually[/i] see the same pattern as what you did. I will never believe that. I can say with complete certainty that I will never ever refer to anyone in my church as a filthy liar or a satanist. It just will never happen. Those are not terms I would use to begin with and that behaviour would never have the chance to grow in my church.


See, in my church there is no preaching. Priests give homilies. The homilies are to teach us how to apply the words of the readings of that day to our lives. Their intent is to show us how to bring Christ into our life and to make him the center of our life. The homilies do not contain content outside the parameters of the teachings of the Catholic Church. The homilies are filled with scripture and with quotes from saints, who are after all, the gospel lived out in our lives. The homilies do not discuss politics or community events. The homilies contain what we need to take with us when the mass is ended and the Priest says, Go in peace, to love and serve the Lord. We are being told to go out and bring that gospel to everyone in our service to the Lord.

Priests do not make a lot of money. My priest belongs to a diocesan order and those in it take a vow of poverty along with their other priestly vows. My church does not talk about money. My church has no debt. If the church cannot afford something, they don't buy it. The ministries at our church do not generate revenue. We have no fund raisers EVER.

I have spent 51 years of my life railing against every form of authority. I have never let anyone walk on me. When I discovered my husband's betrayal our divorce was final in the courts in 60 DAYS! We are still friends and I will always love him. I am not some air headed, shrinking violet who is led around by holy people. I am someone who has been touched by the hand of GOD and is being led by GOD, nobody else.
GOD also delivered me to my specific church with this priest and at the very first mass performed a miracle that made it very clear that this is the priest I am to follow on my path to sanctity.

I am very sorry that you were led into that church. From your tone and words in describing that church, I think I understand more why you are not a fan of organized religion. I think you must have been very very hurt and disillusioned.

I do believe that one must be open minded. I had actually attended about every form of religion there is before my conversion. My fervor for my religion, my church and my priests is a direct result of my seeing the incredible love that is being poured out by God every moment on these people who have become my family. It is not blindly being led by anyone other than God. The things I see and feel are not coming from me, I would not be capable of producing them. They are beyond my human comprehnsion. They are coming from the Holy Spirit. He is leading me.

Your statement that you cannot trust anyone at face value at any time in life, is one of the saddest things I have ever heard. I cannot even imagine living like that. I have been through hell and back in my life and if anyone had a reason not to trust, it would be me. I don't think I would even want to leave my house in the morning if I could not walk out with total trust and belief that God is with me, that he will protect me and he will lead me where he wants me to go. If I trust someone and they don't kill me, it's all good. What is the worst that can happen if you trust everyone? It all comes back 100 fold. It is all good.

I don't as a rule even think about obeying anyone except my Lord but, my Lord wants me to show obedience, to authority, to my employer, to my priest. (not my strong suit.) I can tell you that if my priest told me to sell everything I owned and to go out into the streets to beg for money to fund the church, I would do that. That is the strength of my faith. I never expect to be asked to do anything against God. If I was, I would say no. That simple.

Please read this as I wrote it, with loving intentions to show you that your experience sounds terrible. It is not my experience with the Catholic Church and I cannot ever envision it becoming so.