God's Will

[picchick]

To clarify...I never was questioning the validity of the CC being the true Church. After years of Church history I know that it is the true Church. No other religion has the history of the CC: good and bad.

I do not think that Deb was saying that she had to force anyone to be Catholic just because she is Catholic. As Christians and more specifically Catholics, I believe that we have a duty to evangelize to our brothers and sisters about our faith then they in turn take it and do what they want with it. Plant it, cultivate it, whatever.

Dairygirl: you bring up a very important thing that I didn't take into account.
[quote]if God wanted it clear to all... then it would be.[/quote]

I thought about this and bring up another question: Why doesn't God make it clear? I mean some people do need a slap upside the head (Me most certainly). Just think of all the saints out there who have: St. Francis, St. Faustina...etc How many of them only converted after God revealed Himself to them? For us, Catholics, it is clear but not to everybody. I can see how this is. Why doesn't God make it clear for everybody?

Of course God might reveal Himself in all sorts of ways as Deb mentions. Some might be more subtly.

Some people will never know about Catholicism and the Truth that goes with it. Even if you hear "Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ" that doesn't mean that you know it. I think that it is up to God to see who tried and who didn't.

So maybe the answer to my question is thus: It is God's Will that all people come to the Church. However, God Wills in in His own time. He reveals Himself to those people. Then from there, with free will, it is up to people to accept Him.

For some reason this deeply saddens me.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1512227' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:17 PM']To clarify...I never was questioning the validity of the CC being the true Church. After years of Church history I know that it is the true Church. No other religion has the history of the CC: good and bad.

I do not think that Deb was saying that she had to force anyone to be Catholic just because she is Catholic. As Christians and more specifically Catholics, I believe that we have a duty to evangelize to our brothers and sisters about our faith then they in turn take it and do what they want with it. Plant it, cultivate it, whatever.

Dairygirl: you bring up a very important thing that I didn't take into account.
I thought about this and bring up another question: Why doesn't God make it clear? I mean some people do need a slap upside the head (Me most certainly). Just think of all the saints out there who have: St. Francis, St. Faustina...etc How many of them only converted after God revealed Himself to them? For us, Catholics, it is clear but not to everybody. I can see how this is. Why doesn't God make it clear for everybody?

Of course God might reveal Himself in all sorts of ways as Deb mentions. Some might be more subtly.

Some people will never know about Catholicism and the Truth that goes with it. Even if you hear "Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ" that doesn't mean that you know it. I think that it is up to God to see who tried and who didn't.

So maybe the answer to my question is thus: It is God's Will that all people come to the Church. However, God Wills in in His own time. He reveals Himself to those people. Then from there, with free will, it is up to people to accept Him.

For some reason this deeply saddens me.[/quote]

The more I read your posts Meg, the more I like what you have to say.

The very last statement shows you have a deep concern over people's souls. Have you ever considered just taking that deep concern over people's souls and post up Bible Search contact sheets so if people want to contract you they can and you can teach them a Bible Study?

A great pastor said, you don't have to have all theology correct, and be perfect and sinless to teach people and bible study, you just have to care.

I am very impressed by you right now, and I want to challenge you to do this. I think you will learn a lot about God and others and yourself if you do this.

There are things that really prevent me from totally trusting a church that says it is the only true way to God. There's something just not right about that. BTW, I am not saying there are dozens of ways to God either.

[dairygirl4u2c]

people you are reaching out to in bible study... do not care how much you know... they want to know how much you care.

i heard a quote like that somewhere.

but with that said.... this is a debate table, so the focus should be on debate...

[picchick]

You don't understand JIMSH....

I am a NURSING MAJOR....this means I have no social life outside of school. Maybe when I am done I will help at a Bible study in the area. Right now that just is not plausible. Just as you say that God is not calling you to convert to the Church at this time, God is not calling me to do a Bible Study at this time. He is calling me to do well in my school and to finish in that respects.

I do care very much for the souls around me. It is not measured by how many fliers I put up or if I put fliers up at all. I pray everyday for everyone on phatmass. No one can see that but God. As I meet people, I hope that I set an example for those around me. I answer questions that people have about the faith. I feel that you are insinuating that I do not care enough because I am not starting a Bible Study. But, that is not of debate here and I do not wish to debate that hear. If you wish you can start a new thread with that debate

[quote]There are things that really prevent me from totally trusting a church that says it is the only true way to God. There's something just not right about that. BTW, I am not saying there are dozens of ways to God either.[/quote]

There are actually a bunch of ways to God. But most of the paths are twisted and covered with thorns and bristles and have danger written all over them. The CC is the truest, safest, and straightest way to God.

Meg

[kafka]

[quote name='picchick' post='1511363' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:13 AM']Here is my question:
If the Catholic Church is the true Church, which I believe it is, then is it God's Will that everyone belong to it?

And if this is true then is God's Will not revealed to those people to help them become Catholic?[/quote]
of course, yet the Mystical Body of Christ is more encompassing than just the visible members. eg aborted babies.

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1511411' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:45 AM']There's also a difference between God's intermediate will, and his ultimate will. We can't know how his kingdom will unfold, but I suspect that it is going to be one incredible ride.[/quote]
what? God is Eternity, beyond Time and Place. He sees all of history in One Divine Eternal Act.

[quote name='picchick' post='1511429' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:12 PM']I have been mulling over this idea in my head and I want to get other's views on it.

Jesus says, "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you." So if we do not drink His Blood and eat His Flesh then we are dead. If we are dead we cannot get to heaven. God wants us to be in heaven because that is why He made us.

God made us to konw, love and serve Him in this world and to be happy with him in heaven forever.

If these things are so, then the only way to get to heaven is to recieve Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament or Holy Communion. However, those who do not (those of other faiths) do not recieve Holy Communion. So by the statements above, they would not go to heaven. But if God made us to be with Him, would it not be His Will for everyone to become Catholic?

*And I am in no way judging anyone with this post. I do not know how God judges as to who goes to heaven or not. I am just curious*[/quote]
Christ did not mean that litterally. If so then what about babies who do, or people from other Faiths who are good and inculpably ignorant

[quote name='picchick' post='1512227' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:17 PM']So maybe the answer to my question is thus: It is God's Will that all people come to the Church. However, God Wills in in His own time. He reveals Himself to those people. Then from there, with free will, it is up to people to accept Him.

For some reason this deeply saddens me.[/quote]
I agree with you here. I dont know why it makes you sad though? Maybe cause you have a good heart and know how valuable the Faith is. But I think Love is greater. Faith proceeds from love, so even the ignorant may be in the State of Grace. Love is the greatest and first of the theological virtures. Everything depends on this.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1512433' date='Apr 28 2008, 09:18 AM']I do care very much for the souls around me. It is not measured by how many fliers I put up or if I put fliers up at all. I pray everyday for everyone on phatmass. No one can see that but God. As I meet people, I hope that I set an example for those around me. I answer questions that people have about the faith. I feel that you are insinuating that I do not care enough because I am not starting a Bible Study. But, that is not of debate here and I do not wish to debate that hear. If you wish you can start a new thread with that debate
Meg[/quote]

You know, I use to go to Karatee school in my home town, and the master of the Dojo was really hard on his students? Wanna know why, not because he didn't think they were doing it well enough, but he wanted them to be the best they could be.

My little suggestion is not, you're not doing enough Meg, this is my way of saying, Meg I believe in you, and I believe you can make a great impact on this world, so go for it girl.

[picchick]

[quote]of course, yet the Mystical Body of Christ is more encompassing than just the visible members. eg aborted babies.[/quote]
Agreed. I never meant to make people think that this is not so.

[quote]Christ did not mean that litterally. If so then what about babies who do, or people from other Faiths who are good and inculpably ignorant[/quote]

Christ did mean that literally. However, people who are unable to recieve for a list of reason, who do not know God, inculpably ignorant do not count into this statement. It is for those who it has been taught to. Again, I cannot make judgements only God can. However, for those who have been instructed this passage holds true.

[kafka]

[quote name='picchick' post='1513540' date='Apr 28 2008, 11:32 PM']Christ did mean that literally. However, people who are unable to recieve for a list of reason, who do not know God, inculpably ignorant do not count into this statement. It is for those who it has been taught to. Again, I cannot make judgements only God can. However, for those who have been instructed this passage holds true.[/quote]
that is pretty good. I think you are right.

[picchick]

*bows*

Thank you

[Alycin]

[quote name='picchick' post='1512433' date='Apr 28 2008, 10:18 AM']There are actually a bunch of ways to God. But most of the paths are twisted and covered with thorns and bristles and have danger written all over them. The CC is the truest, safest, and straightest way to God.

Meg[/quote]

Best. Quote. Ever!

[picchick]

Here is another point that I want to bring up:

There were many saints who God revealed himself to and they converted:

St. Francis was made very sick and then God revealed Himself to him and St. Francis converted.
St. Faustina was a party girl until God asked her why she was not going back to Him. She converted.
St. Paul persecuted the Christians until God struck him blind and asked why he was doing what he was doing. He converted.

The list could go on and on.

However, my point is that if why did God choose to reveal Himself clearly to these Saints and not to the world as a whole? If we are all called to be saints should He not also reveal Himself clearly to those who do not believe?

One could argue, I guess, that these saints had a special part to play in the grand scheme of things. But do we not also have a special part to play in God's Will?

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1513807' date='Apr 29 2008, 07:35 AM']Here is another point that I want to bring up:

There were many saints who God revealed himself to and they converted:

St. Francis was made very sick and then God revealed Himself to him and St. Francis converted.
St. Faustina was a party girl until God asked her why she was not going back to Him. She converted.
St. Paul persecuted the Christians until God struck him blind and asked why he was doing what he was doing. He converted.

The list could go on and on.

However, my point is that if why did God choose to reveal Himself clearly to these Saints and not to the world as a whole? If we are all called to be saints should He not also reveal Himself clearly to those who do not believe?

One could argue, I guess, that these saints had a special part to play in the grand scheme of things. But do we not also have a special part to play in God's Will?[/quote]

First, it is God's will for none to parish, but all to come to repentance.

That is God's will.

God's plan is slightly different than God's will.

Honestly, there are those that I am enemies with that I would love to see come to true repentance, like the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers.

Will they? Or are they part of the Whore of Babylon system that will have God's judgment poured out on them.

[picchick]

whoa whoa whoa...you have enemies? Didn't Jesus say, "Love thy enemies...do good to those who persecute you? Just a challenge for you to think about.

I think that you and I finally agree on something:

[quote]God's plan is slightly different than God's will.[/quote]

Yet I still do understand why some people are chosen to be "more important" so to say than others.

[CatherineM]

Maybe God picks people because they have a special gift that he wants to make use of. I know that many of those chosen have very hard roads, and God picks those that are strong enough to shoulder the burden.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1513864' date='Apr 29 2008, 09:50 AM']whoa whoa whoa...you have enemies? Didn't Jesus say, "Love thy enemies...do good to those who persecute you? Just a challenge for you to think about.

I think that you and I finally agree on something:
Yet I still do understand why some people are chosen to be "more important" so to say than others.[/quote]
Yes, Jesus said love your enemies. Did I not say, I would love to see the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers come to repentance. I say that because I love them. They are still my enemies though, because they still choose to create an economic system they kill for.

The Rothschilds probably had Abraham Lincoln assassinated after the American Civil War because Abraham Lincoln told them if they ever offered him loans to fight his war against the south he would have the killed.

The Rothschilds probably had John Fitzgerald Kennedy killed when he tried to dismantle the CIA, because the people who run the CIA are almost always good friends of the Rothschilds.

The Rothschilds probably gave a warning to Ronald Reagan when his study of where Income Tax goes said it all goes to the Federal Reserve.

They are my enemies, because they are God's enemies. The way they have set up the economics of our world, is it a wonder why so many millions die of malnutrition a year, why there is such a great looming recession that the world is facing, and many other evils, because they like playing God. If they will kill for the economic system they have created, why would they care about Dafur, or any other country for that matter.

If they needed my help in anything godly, I would certainly help them with it. If they needed to borrow five bucks, I would certainly give it. If they needed a place to stay, i would certainly give them a room. But I can't let them destroy our world with an economic system out of hell and be a 'nice' Christian about it.