God's Will

[dairygirl4u2c]

also i think it's important to this topic....

i remember when catholic, it made sense when people said "if you're only a cafetaria catholic, picking and choosing what to believe, why be catholic"

more recently though, when considering being liberal catholic, i realized that if you think the authoirty claims are false, but that the general church might be right.... then maybe picking and choosing to osme extent might not be that bad.

i mean, people could still say that stuff about cafeteria catholic... even after considering what i just said... but they shouldn't look at if so fully as if it's the only logical conclusion that they should just leave. that's how i though when catholic, and i bet that's how many catholics think... given how they conduct themselves and evidence by my own past thought.

[dairygirl4u2c]

more specifically to the topic of God's will.

if God wanted it clear to all... then it would be.
i don't think i'd say it's clear to all. it's pretty clear but not super clear. and, many christians surely never know of the CC.
the bilbe often talks about how truth wouldn't and won't be clear to all, and they'll be condmned. so it's possible all who remain out of it are condemned. but given the CC's own teaching, that's probably not the case.
(there are some catholic who say anyone outside, or anyone who knows anything of it,,, and not catholic are condmned (or at least may be that all are condmned), but they are in the minority.... this issue runs up with EENS, but i don't want to give JIMSH fodder for debate when he should find his own material)

maybe God wants protestants to keep the CC in line if the CC is true, not willing them to be protestants, but willing that the good effects of them being so helps the CC.

cause if the CC is true, surely Gods direct intention is that all become catholic.

Edited April 27, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[Adrestia]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1511728' date='Apr 27 2008, 03:00 PM']i mean, people could still say that stuff about cafeteria catholic... even after considering what i just said... but they shouldn't look at if so fully as if it's the only logical conclusion that they should just leave. that's how i though when catholic, and i bet that's how many catholics think... given how they conduct themselves and evidence by my own past thought.[/quote]
I used to think it was fine to disagree with the church about various points. What I eventually came to realize about myself was that I struggle with pride. By objective American standards I am considered to be "smart"... so I used to think that I had to have all the answers for everything in my life. That great personality flaw was used by the devil to convince me that I knew better than the Church in some areas. By the grace of God I learned to separate my "academic personality" from the rest of me. [i]Humility and submission are essential to Christian life[/i]. For me that means trusting The Church established by The Anointed One - especially when I don't completely understand something.

[CatherineM]

John Paul II wrote in his 1995 Encyclical called Ut Unum Sint, that he understood well that the papacy is the biggest obstacle to the re-establishment of full communion with other Christian churches. I think that Lumen gentium brought the papacy back into balance with the mission of all the bishops. I guess I just don't see the problem people have with the idea that just as Christ gave authority to Peter, Peter had the authority to pass that along.

As to those not being in communion and salvation, I really like Karl Rahner's idea of the "anonymous Christian."

[Deb]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1511750' date='Apr 27 2008, 04:15 PM']I used to think it was fine to disagree with the church about various points. What I eventually came to realize about myself was that I struggle with pride. By objective American standards I am considered to be "smart"... so I used to think that I had to have all the answers for everything in my life. That great personality flaw was used by the devil to convince me that I knew better than the Church in some areas. By the grace of God I learned to separate my "academic personality" from the rest of me. [i]Humility and submission are essential to Christian life[/i]. For me that means trusting The Church established by The Anointed One - especially when I don't completely understand something.[/quote]


Amen. I so identify with your statement. When you spend your entire life being smart and knowing a lot about many things and having control over a lot, and people rely on you, you tend to shut out religion an anything else that may interfere with your pride and ego and conceit. I still struggle with pride. It truly is the worst thing to be attached to and only until you let it go or have it torn from you, can you open yourself up to God's will. My priest is 15 years younger than me but, he is light years past me on anything to do with God, religion, spirituality, holiness, humility etc. How could I not respect and rely on the Church to direct me in the manner Christ would want me to go? The Pope was walking with the Lord before I was born. I will put my trust in him.

I believe without a doubt that the Catholic Church is the true church of God. I believe that those who were formed in it and then left it will be judged more harshly by God than those who never knew of it. I believe that all baptized have the Holy Spirit within us. I believe God calls us all at some time or another to open our hearts and come to him. Some don't hear it because of how hardened they are and how prideful they are. Some hear it and turn away. Some need to be broken completely before they can hear his call. That was me.

Edited April 27, 2008 by Deb

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

Just to let you know, there will never be any kind of unity in the believers for the moment. Satan knows God wants us all to be unified. So he comes in with his tares into the faith to cause disunity.

There are some here to believe in Theistic Evolution, and others who will say, that doesn't make sense when I compare it to God's character in the Bible.

There are going to be some who will say, Gene Manipulation to cure disease is okay, and others will say, we shouldn't be playing God.

There are going to be some who will say, the Pope in infalliable, and others who will say, he's a man and needs to be accountable. The bishops who let priests abuse children should be held accountable, and the Satanists who masquraded as Christians should definitely be held accountable. I'd prefer to see each and every one of those priests who did that have a hundred pound weight tied around their necks and thrown into the deepest oceans while saying, Jesus says you're too good for this, because he said it would have been better for this to happen than to offend a child trying to learn about Christ!

These things will always plague the unity of the believers because there are tares who are trying to cause division.

Great news though, those evil ones causing the divisions will be gone at the end of the age, as God passes judgment on them. Then the glory of the father will be shined on us for 50 years as Israel comes to repentance!

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='picchick' post='1511363' date='Apr 27 2008, 09:13 AM']Here is my question:
If the Catholic Church is the true Church, which I believe it is, then is it God's Will that everyone belong to it?

And if this is true then is God's Will not revealed to those people to help them become Catholic?[/quote]

Meg, your questions here are actually really hard for me to answer. When I try to respond to the question if the Catholic Church is the true Church, then it would be God's will for everyone to belong to it, and I get this pit in my stomach. It is really interesting, when I get that pit in my stomach, it is God warning me not to go any farther. I am pretty sure God doesn't want me to answer that question in any way shape and form, and I wanted to say if it was God's will than you should belong.

edited - I believe God's will for you will be revealed to you when you help people have faith in Jesus Christ.

A good friend of mine in Missouri started a ministry to help witches, satanists, and other occultists to come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, and then his life was never the same again.

Take this as you will.

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511883' date='Apr 27 2008, 06:18 PM']Meg, your questions here are actually really hard for me to answer. When I try to respond to the question if the Catholic Church is the true Church, then it would be God's will for everyone to belong to it, and I get this pit in my stomach. It is really interesting, when I get that pit in my stomach, it is God warning me not to go any farther. I am pretty sure God doesn't want me to answer that question in any way shape and form, and I wanted to say if it was God's will than you should belong.

I believe God's will for you will be revealed to those who help people have faith in Jesus Christ.

A good friend of mine in Missouri started a ministry to help witches, satanists, and other occultists to come to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, and then his life was never the same again.

Take this as you will.[/quote]

All your response says to me is that I don't have an answer, I don't want to know the truth, so I will just say, Oh God is in the pit of my stomach saying I shouldn't really get into this.
Guess what, God is telling me that it is my duty as a Catholic to spread the news of the Lord Jesus' Christs will, which to bring all to unity in the Catholic Church. It is my duty to evangelize. It is my duty to let the truth be known. So, guess we got a stand off. Course, I do have over a billion people backing me in my truth. Hmmm. You have the pit of your stomach?
Beware of false prophets. They shall want you to believe that they are me. Do not believe them. Take that as you will.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511883' date='Apr 27 2008, 05:18 PM']I believe God's will for you will be revealed to those who help people have faith in Jesus Christ.[/quote]

What does this mean? Are you saying God's will for "X" will be revealed to "Y" and "Z" because "Y" and "Z" help people have faith in Christ?

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Deb' post='1511904' date='Apr 27 2008, 05:43 PM']All your response says to me is that I don't have an answer, I don't want to know the truth, so I will just say, Oh God is in the pit of my stomach saying I shouldn't really get into this.
Guess what, God is telling me that it is my duty as a Catholic to spread the news of the Lord Jesus' Christs will, which to bring all to unity in the Catholic Church. It is my duty to evangelize. It is my duty to let the truth be known. So, guess we got a stand off. Course, I do have over a billion people backing me in my truth. Hmmm. You have the pit of your stomach?
Beware of false prophets. They shall want you to believe that they are me. Do not believe them. Take that as you will.[/quote]
Wow, are you offended by what I said.

If you are suppose to evangelize, God will be there working with you with signs and wonders following. Since I am pretty sure now that God doesn't want me in the CC, than you will not be getting me.

So, whose God is really God? Is your God who says you have to force everybody who is not Catholic to be Catholic the God of Israel, or is my God the God of Israel. Let the war of the Gods begin.

If I am wrong, then let the lord judge between you and me Deb. Are you ready for that.

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[CatherineM]

We believe in the one God, the God of Abraham, was the God of Jesus as well. You can't have a war between Gods when there is only one God.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1511935' date='Apr 27 2008, 06:15 PM']We believe in the one God, the God of Abraham, was the God of Jesus as well. You can't have a war between Gods when there is only one God.[/quote]
Apparently, if God is telling me not to belong to the Catholic Church, and Deb says that God is telling her that she needs to evangelize everybody to believe in the Catholic Church, there has be one who is right and one that is wrong.

So either the God I know is not the one true God but a counterfit, or her's is!

I may be wrong, so if I am wrong, then the Lord will sort it out, but if she is wrong, than the Lord will sort it out.

When it comes to spiritual matters, if there is an impasse, then we have to accept there is an impasse and let God determine who is right and who is wrong.

I will be willing to accept my mistake if there is one. Deb, can you accept the same?

Remember, the Bible says there are two Gods, the God of this world, Satan, and the one True God of Israel who sent his son for us to be saved.

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511940' date='Apr 27 2008, 07:21 PM']Apparently, if God is telling me not to belong to the Catholic Church, and Deb says that God is telling her that she needs to evangelize everybody to believe in the Catholic Church, there has be one who is right and one that is wrong.

So either the God I know is not the one true God but a counterfit, or her's is!

I may be wrong, so if I am wrong, then the Lord will sort it out, but if she is wrong, than the Lord will sort it out.

When it comes to spiritual matters, if there is an impasse, then we have to accept there is an impasse and let God determine who is right and who is wrong.

I will be willing to accept my mistake if there is one. Deb, can you accept the same?

Remember, the Bible says there are two Gods, the God of this world, Satan, and the one True God of Israel who sent his son for us to be saved.[/quote]

Seeing as I never sought out God to begin with and he took me, a pathetic, dispairing, suicidal human being and healed all my wounds, filled my heart with Love, showed me his presence, taught me his word, changed all my interests from secular to religious, took me from bars to daily mass, took my hunger for drugs and replaced it with hunger for his body and blood, let me see that my material possessions are meaningless and helped me get rid of them, replaced my drug and drinking buddies with religious, loving christians, shown himself to me physically and spiritually, graced me with visions and an unbelievable connection to the Holy Spirit, YEAH, I will tell you right now, I know who my God is.

I will NEVER even think for one second that this is a mistake. Ii did not ask for this but, I would rather die that be without MY LORD and MY EUCHARIST. I cry tears of gratitude every single day that I have been lifted up into the arms of my Lord. He is my Master. He owns me. I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER allude to him not being the True God. I would sooner have my heart cut out. That would send me directly to hell.
Jesus Christ is the light, the way and the truth. I was given a gift of incredible faith. I was given a gift that I never even asked for from someone I didn't even believe in. I would not have believed such a thing could even be. I have been given joy and peace that defy description in human terms.

I am living God's will now and it isn't a feeling in my gut, it is pure and in my soul. I was born with the need to live for him, I just never knew it.

P.S. I walked with Satan over three decades. I am well acquainted with him. I was taken from him. Now I am protected against him.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Deb

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511929' date='Apr 27 2008, 07:06 PM']Wow, are you offended by what I said.

If you are suppose to evangelize, God will be there working with you with signs and wonders following. Since I am pretty sure now that God doesn't want me in the CC, than you will not be getting me.

So, whose God is really God? Is your God who says you have to force everybody who is not Catholic to be Catholic the God of Israel, or is my God the God of Israel. Let the war of the Gods begin.

If I am wrong, then let the lord judge between you and me Deb. Are you ready for that.[/quote]

God does not force anyone to anything. He just gives the knowledge of his word and it leads to him. War of the Gods? The Lord judge between you and me? You are different, that is for sure.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Deb' post='1512110' date='Apr 27 2008, 08:51 PM']God does not force anyone to anything. He just gives the knowledge of his word and it leads to him. War of the Gods? The Lord judge between you and me? You are different, that is for sure.[/quote]
I didn't say God was forcing people. I am saying you are forcing people. You need to calm down, and think about how you are communicating right now.