BLAZEr Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 First of all, the Vatican's position on this matter was a PRUDENTIAL decision. The pope never said that the War in Iraq was evil, he said that war is ALWAYS a defeat for humanity. This strikes me as true, but not condemnatory of the US position in Iraq. The pope and the Vatican, despite what the leftists in this country claim, did not come out against President Bush as much as they came out against war. What do you expect? Can the Vatican reasonably say "Yay War! Kill those SOB's" . . . of course not. And while we're at it, the Vatican has said, and the Pope has both said and written that building a culture of life is the primary issue facing political society. They have said that before we consider any political issue we must first consider how the candidates will build a Culture of Life. Among Culture of Life issues, the Church has unequivocally positioned abortion as the most serious threat to the sanctity of life becasue it attacks life at its most innocent and vulnerable time. The pope has said that the isse of abortion is paramount to our building a cutlure of life and he has said that eradicating abortion is the necessary first step to creating a culture of life. Our own Bishops have made it clear that when we vote we must consider first and foremost the candidates position on abortion. All other issues come second to that one. It is not true that abortion legislation is primarily a state issue. It is primarily a federal issue because our judicial system has taken it upon istself to write and unwrite legislation restricting abortion. The confirmation of federal judges who will not invent a "right to privacy" that includes the right to murder unborn children is the first and foremost issue facing America today. Any politician who will be appointing federal judges (and that's the president) must guarantee that he will not appoint pro-abortion idealogues. John Kerry has promised time after time that if he appoints any judges they will be supporters of Roe v. Wade. That means they will all be pro-abortion idealogues. He has stated that he does have a litmus test. Abortion is not the only issue facing America. It's just the most important one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 dUSt!!! You don't get out the vote! C'mon, man...! Jeb Bush or Condi Rice in 2008 against Hillary Clinton... I liked Condoleeza Rice a lot until I found out she's pro-choice. But she's better than Hillary. And I like George Bush and he's got my vote! I don't trust anyone who has no respect for the most basic of human rights -- the right to life, especially when they brag about how they're Catholic but that doesn't interfere with their politics ... coughJohncoughKerry. And one more thing to just throw out there, How come Bill Clinton could throw random missiles at Osama and drop a few bombs on Baghdad and enter Kosovo for no real reason and nobody cared about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 The pope and the Vatican, despite what the leftists in this country claim, did not come out against President Bush as much as they came out against war. What do you expect? Can the Vatican reasonably say "Yay War! Kill those SOB's" . . . of course not. ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 look, i'm just tired of this argument. we've had it many times before, and the same ground keeps getting re-hashed, over and over again. The people who like Bush seem to bash those who don't. :getaclue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Even as dumb as Bush appears he can't be that stupid, because just look at who he has surrounded himself with...people much much smarter than himself. A truly dumb person would not have the sense to do that. And I don't know about the rest of you guys but if I ever got up and made speeches for a living I know most people would think I'm a flipping moron. That was an excellent post. I just wanted to say, since I was the one who used the word "dumb," I don't think Prez. Bush IS dumb, but sometimes he comes off that way. People would think I'm a flipping moron, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Lil Red, I don't know if I agree. Maybe it's just that those who don't like Bush have arguments that easy to destroy . . . so it seems like bashing, but really we're not even trying very hard . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 People would think I'm a flipping moron, too! would? hmmm . . . naw, too easy . . . too easy . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 "abortion and euthanasia are crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize. There is no obligation in conscience to obey such laws; instead there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or vote for it." I don't understand why Catholics that vote for liberal campaigns are quick to point out how the pope vocally opposed the war (and I agreed with him) but they're so quick to ignore what he also said above in Evangelium Vitae, which holds a heck of a lot more Papal power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 hey, BLAZEr, i forgot to tell you that I :wub: your avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 would? hmmm . . . naw, too easy . . . too easy . . . Ok, ok, DO. Sheesh. You're really not very good at helping me to remain in my little illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 (edited) bLAZER, You seem very passionate about this topic, as am I about my stance. However, I'm going to stay out of this discussion, I'm a Catholic first and foremost. I don't want to let this arguement injure my relationship with you or any other PHATMASSERS. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I don't agree with the war in Iraq, especially after they have admitted that there is no WMD. Again, lets not let this hurt our relationship as fellow Catholics. Peace, -Thomas Edited February 24, 2004 by Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Thomas, no big deal . . . I was against the war in Iraq too. I know, most people would never have guessed! I guess I just had a response to it born out of hope rather than frustration or anger, which is what I saw most of the protests filled with. I lived in New York during this time and went to some of the so called "peace" rallies. Oh, and my real issue is Abortion. That's the one that I know, that I have given myself over to fighting, that I have been trained to combat. I used to work for Priests for Life, so Fr. Frank Pavone has pretty much taught me everything I know about abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I'm definitely voting to limit the evil. Fr. Frank Pavone says not to vote for the lesser of the two evils but vote to limit the evil. Heard him say that on Catholic Answers and say that voting for the lesser of the two evils implies that we are voting for evil, when you vote to limit the evil, your ulitimately voting for good. Basically, he's been saying we need to change our terminology now because of what society is doing and turning into. That was his main thing. Especially about life. No more "from conception" but from the "earliest stages of life." anywayz, Bush isn't perfect, but who is? Abortion is the main issue for me. I"m just praying for God's Will to be done, just like last prez. election. It was the most awfulest, darkest moment when they announced Gore had won.....then like a miracle when Bush won. We'll pray just as hard as we did then cause lives depend on it. All lives, but most of all innocent and defeseless in the womb; the unborn. It has to start somewhere. Our Lady of Guadalupe, Pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeful1 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 this is the first year i can vote, and I'm registered as Rep, but i'm really an indy with conservative tendencies, and i'm really finding myself in a dilema. I was supportive of bush in the past cuz he is pro-life but lately i'm finding that would be the only reason for me to vote for him cuz of the way he's treated everything else. I would agree wholeheartedly that abortion is an important issue and we need to defend life. but there are other important issues that need to be looked at as well. I know i'm not going to vote for Kerry, and i'm not really impressed with any of the other guys either. i'm actually considering not voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 (edited) this is the first year i can vote, and I'm registered as Rep, but i'm really an indy with conservative tendencies, and i'm really finding myself in a dilema. I was supportive of bush in the past cuz he is pro-life but lately i'm finding that would be the only reason for me to vote for him cuz of the way he's treated everything else. I would agree wholeheartedly that abortion is an important issue and we need to defend life. but there are other important issues that need to be looked at as well. I know i'm not going to vote for Kerry, and i'm not really impressed with any of the other guys either. i'm actually considering not voting. i don't know, I'm just thinking, but wouldn't that mean you would, in a way, be supporting whoever got elected? i can't find the right words. I mean, say Kerry won. wouldn't you just be supporting him -- and his policies -- by your not voting for Bush (or vice versa)? I think we have to vote even when we don't like either candidate. i see it as a duty almost. does any of that make sense or am I just completely mixed up? :wacko: Edited February 24, 2004 by Colleen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now