Justification

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1510109' date='Apr 25 2008, 09:33 PM']ok, well if you admit you have no problems andor agree with the catholic position, then i have no issue.

i'm still not sure if by "like" you mean, a good and reasonable christian could believe it... or if you mean you agree. cause if you don't agree, i still wonder what it is you disagree with.

but i will let it go since you at least i think mean that a godo and reasonable christian could believe it, and in my mind that's enough of a concesstion for the purposes of a debate.[/quote]

I pretty much believe what most people here believe here. If you are saved, your works will follow. God works with people, but you have to go out and do something.

However, no work of God will happen if the Lord will not work with the individual, and the individual has to humble himself before God. The first step is to say, I have sinned against you God. You have to repent. And then God can start to work in your life, and then the works will follow, first with Baptism, and then with other works later.

If you are asking, I like posting on this post, because I like doing so.

I don't appreciate the evil you have been spouting on some of your posts diary, and so I am going to continue to fight against you. And yes, I am throwing ad hominems at you because I want you to get angry at me. Who are you to go against the will of God? Who are you to corrupt people's good intentions by making them desire an evil path? Who are you to do such a thing?

[dairygirl4u2c]

as to whether my works are done in me or in God, you are probably correct my pride exists too much. your discernment isn't too far off. i wouldn't give up hope, or think i'm completely lost, or completely astray though. that would be wrong.

i mean, i don't like you either, nothing personal, that's just the way it is. your style of debate or what have you especially. i think you mean well, somewhat. but for the most part, i think you're rationalizing by speaking of charity and explaining the ways of God as a mechanism to avoid facing the truth, cause you should be discussing and debating more.
there's atime and a place for emotional appeal, again. don't get me wrong.

i think me trying to peirce that shroud you create makes you distrust me, and that makes me distrust you. it's a viscious cycle.

Edited April 26, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1510114' date='Apr 25 2008, 09:41 PM']as to whether my works are done in me or in God, you are probably correct my pride exists too much. your discernment isn't too far off. i wouldn't give up hope, or think i'm completely lost, or completely astray though. that would be wrong.

i mean, i don't like you either, nothing personal, that's just the way it is. your style of debate or what have you especially. i think you mean well, somewhat. but for the most part, i think you're rationalizing by speaking of charity and explaining the ways of God as a mechanism to avoid facing the truth, cause you should be discussing and debating more.

i think me trying to peirce that shroud you create makes you distrust me, and that makes me distrust you. it's a viscious cycle.[/quote]

I can be reasonable to say, I may be wrong with things as well. Anybody can be deceived. Your post right here has given me some hope, because if you can respond that way when the gauntlet comes down, at least you know when to say, okay, I may have to face a truth.

However, evil just makes me feel sick to my stomach. I get a physical reaction when I see evil in this world, including my own evil. So when I see church around the world living self-righteously, then I get angry. All Churches have said some pretty evil stuff. People have said the first eight crusades were just because the Pope said they were. Can you say for certain that is how God sees it? Do the Popes have a vested interest in saying that because if they can say an event like that was not of God, it would shatter the faith of their believers, and they would leave on mass. . .

I don't trust a church who says its actions are impeccable, and no human being in the world can be 100 per cent living in total clarity as to all things which are from God or not! The Pope, in my eyes, is just another human being, and can be wrong with morals and doctrine. Even Peter was wrong, the first 'Pope', when he told Paul not to go out to the Gentiles to preach the Gospel!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1510107' date='Apr 25 2008, 09:31 PM']One of the gifts of the spirit is the discernment of spirits. God can talk to all of us in response to someone's character. I know dairy is some very interesting, and I don't like her. She is passing off filth as something is of God and God needs someone who will stand against her. I am here to be her nemesis. After all, Paul told the old witch who said, these are the sons of the living god to shut her mouth because it grieved him. I guess he shouldn't have told a witch to shut up when she spoke evil. . .

I have answered most of your posts. I understand we don't agree on the fact that belief should/shouldn't be organized. That's okay though, because you are honest about your intentions.[/quote]

From what I recall you have not answered the question of infallibility. I do recall you saying understood scripture, but that is not what was asked. Again, you have said you don't respond to others when they quote scripture because "they dont have the spirit" to know its true meaning. How unless you have infallibility could you say such a thing.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1510124' date='Apr 25 2008, 09:51 PM']From what I recall you have not answered the question of infallibility. I do recall you saying understood scripture, but that is not what was asked. Again, you have said you don't respond to others when they quote scripture because "they dont have the spirit" to know its true meaning. How unless you have infallibility could you say such a thing.[/quote]
Those were hasty words, and I sometimes say things out of the heat of the moment. I apologize.

I have answered most of your posts, but who can nit pick at dozens of scriptures for hours at a time. I have a life you know. I can't reply to every post, or I wouldn't have enough time to get a good night sleep before work friend! LOL!

The question I was responding too, or at least what I thought I was, is concerning why I said that I felt diary might be one of the two who God would pass judgement, and the reason for it is because I can tell in my spirit she is very self motivated, and her good intentions were clouding her mind as to the truth of 'Forcing Evolution', that is not of God. I can say without a doubt in my mind, God doesn't want us to interfere in things that are uniquely his domain, and deciding how to form a child is his domain alone. So many times in scripture, God days he formed people from the womb. He wouldn't want us to start forming babies in the womb because that is his domain.

Edited April 26, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[dairygirl4u2c]

also, just fyi,,, i often distrust your motives. i think you think you are right about personally responsible church, which i cna't disagree with as that's my church right now.... but i don't see clear reasons why you are at the deabte board, or howy ou think you are justified in that.

i know you say you like it here, which could be enough and your true motive.
liking it here justifies your being here, it doesn't justify the foundations for how you form your beliefs and things of debate nature.

so it strikes me you are trying to snatch up catholics who are deceived, showing them the love of God and the personally responsible alternative. if that's true it is condescending as teh catholics here know God. it's a different flavor, i can feel and speak both protestant and catholic, i know. this is a place of debate. not a place of emotional evangelazation, preying on the weak etc.

i may be wrong, but that's my impression.

Edited April 26, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1510125' date='Apr 25 2008, 09:56 PM']Those were hasty words, and I sometimes say things out of the heat of the moment. I apologize.

I have answered most of your posts, but who can nit pick at dozens of scriptures for hours at a time. I have a life you know. I can't reply to every post, or I wouldn't have enough time to get a good night sleep before work friend! LOL![/quote]


cool...

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1510128' date='Apr 25 2008, 10:06 PM']also, just fyi,,, i often distrust your motives. i think you think you are right about personally responsible church, which i cna't disagree with as that's my church right now.... but i don't see clear reasons why you are at the deabte board, or howy ou think you are justified in that.

i know you say you like it here, which could be enough and your true motive.
liking it here justifies your being here, it doesn't justify the foundations for how you form your beliefs and things of debate nature.

so it strikes me you are trying to snatch up catholics who are deceived, showing them the love of God and the personally responsible alternative. if that's true it is condescending as teh catholics here know God. it's a different flavor, i can feel and speak both protestant and catholic, i know. this is a place of debate. not a place of emotional evangelazation, preying on the weak etc.

i may be wrong, but that's my impression.[/quote]

My reasons are a little more subtle than that. I will not really say why I am posting her right now, except to get some people ruffled up because I am bothering they're world view. There are people on this board I know are filthy liars. The Bible says 1 in 2 will be taken in judgment, and that judgment is the gathering of the tares, which happens before the true glory of the father will be seen in the world. That is in Mathew 13.

There are people who are purposely here to keep their world view from being threatened, and so I threaten it. They're world view is going to be challenged. The last thing they would want is someone saying, take personal responsibility for searching out God on your own. You can do so in your religion, what ever it may be. Because, once you take responsibility for that walk, and start listening to God, even to the reprimends, than God has you in his grasp, and not them.

When people have God's spirit directing them, they should be able to see into people's lives, and then start to say, that person I don't like their motives in regards to this. Notice how I said I don't like your motives in regards to 'Forced Evolution', and you were able to say, hey, I might be right. It now eating at your heart that you may have gone to far in thinking that is of God. I discerned, and I stood, and now you're thinking about your heart, and if you are right or not. You may not like my style, but who cares. The fact I got you on the doorstep of repentance where God can deal with you gives me great joy. Faith without works is dead indeed. Take that step dairy, 'Forcing Evolution' will not solve the health or moral issues of the human race, but when a human being repents, that does!

Edited April 26, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[dairygirl4u2c]

see i was right, you are trying to show the alternative.
which is fine.... i just wish you wouldn't base it on emotional appeal.. people go all over the place with emotions and it's not a way to be in debate.

i want my worldview threatened. i change my beliefs when i have no other option but to concede i am wrong. i'm the last person you should be worried about about that here. if anything, i'm too flimsy. i've been trying to take harder stances lately on things. it's hard for me to comprehend how people can be hardliners on most things, cause it's all based on human reason, empiracal proof etc. i mean Jesus, the santity of life etc, are understandable and basic human decency, but there's so much more there that depends on so much.
personally, i don't like the likes of ironmonk and socrates etc, cause they cannot discuss being wrong, and avoid honestly addressing argumentation etc. i mean, i think htey mean well but.

i have and will examine my believe in manipulating genes. i hope you do too. most people here have been saying they'd probably do gene therapy. i hope you take your own advice and reexamine your belief here, cause i'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. i'm pretty adament about it too.

and this whole conversation, i hope, will make you debate more, instead of all these overwroght digressions we're having and emotional appeal. digressions are something i used to do too much here, and i'm trying to cut back on except when needed, like here.

[rachael]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1510139' date='Apr 25 2008, 11:17 PM']There are people on this board I know are filthy liars.[/quote]



wow.

[dairygirl4u2c]

also, for the msot part, you're doing more harm than good, i think. peole here think you avoid debate, and are emotional. and are much like most christians. weird protestants come and go on this board, and you're simply being put into that class, cause you're avoiding debate, much like they did. discussing things would make you stand out.

the showing the alternative thing is okay to an extent... but it starts to seem like you're a wolf in sheeps clothing. if i know you like i think i do, cause you're the semblence of msot christians out on the prowl and one their pedestal... you think our thought of you as a wolf is wrong, when you're really just doing what God intends and we don't like it. but, you might want to reexamine that basic presmise, cause i have a good feeling that's explains much of what you think and do here, and it's not necessarily teh case.
it would be better for you to get down off your emotional God trip and actually discuss the issues amounst us like a normal human being.
if you cna't do that, you're no better than a muslim who won't debate cause they "know" they're right. stickign around to show the greatest of islam.
what a deceitful joke/lie.

Edited April 26, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='rachael' post='1510160' date='Apr 25 2008, 10:58 PM']
wow.[/quote]
Rachel, the Bible says one in two people will be taken in judgment, and that judgment will come at the end of the age when the angels reap the tares and throw them into the everlasting fire.

So, with that being said, one out of two people you meet will be thrown into everlasting fire by an angel, because they are a tare, and they are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I know it is pretty hard to grasp and believe, but all you can do is just live, and remember, one person out of two is someone who you can trust, and the other person is probably plotting against you secretly.

Remember, Jesus said our enemies will come from our own families, and sons will betray fathers, and mothers daughters, and brothers will betray their sisters. So, how can you know that your own family member is not going to betray you, or is in fact betraying you right now. One day, all those acts done in the darkness will come out into the light for all to see, and we will see all those who truly were Christian, and all those who are faking, including the people on this board.

Edited April 27, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1510168' date='Apr 25 2008, 11:10 PM']also, for the msot part, you're doing more harm than good, i think. peole here think you avoid debate, and are emotional. and are much like most christians. weird protestants come and go on this board, and you're simply being put into that class, cause you're avoiding debate, much like they did. discussing things would make you stand out.

the showing the alternative thing is okay to an extent... but it starts to seem like you're a wolf in sheeps clothing. if i know you like i think i do, cause you're the semblence of msot christians out on the prowl and one their pedestal... you think our thought of you as a wolf is wrong, when you're really just doing what God intends and we don't like it. but, you might want to reexamine that basic presmise, cause i have a good feeling that's explains much of what you think and do here, and it's not necessarily teh case.
it would be better for you to get down off your emotional God trip and actually discuss the issues amounst us like a normal human being.
if you cna't do that, you're no better than a muslim who won't debate cause they "know" they're right. stickign around to show the greatest of islam.
what a deceitful joke/lie.[/quote]

I will examine myself. I can be wrong on a lot of things. I am not doing anything but shaking some people who shouldn't be trusted on this board.

I put up stuff that would threaten their world view on things. We have had people telling us for over 16 centuries that this person people call Pope is infallable, can't make any mistakes on morals and dogmas, and I see a whole bunch of them playing God, and will be very, very, very guilty before God when he asks them the tough questions.

How do we really know God wanted the first eight crusades? Do we really want to say, one hundred per cent that God wanted that? What if someone says that they are, and they weren't?

When someone says something is of God, and it isn't you are gambling with your soul, because Iniquity is to say something is of the Lord when it is not, or doing something within the spirit without God's guiding you down that path.

On your remarks with genetic engineering, sorry, I will never accept it, because it is one more step of man making himself God, because the number of man is 6, and the Mark of the Beast is 666, and since God's number is 3, Man makes himself God! We shouldn't be doing something that God himself should be the only one doing! We shouldn't be meddling in the process of how human beings are formed, because God forms in the womb, if we start interfering, than we make ourselves like God, because now we can form babies, custom made babies!

I believe some of the judgments, such as the plagues, will be God opening up another seal judgment which will befall men because they are playing God too much, and God will send the plagues they have made and that will kill billions of people! People shouldn't be meddling with how God created things. I will never reconsider, ever. If people want to reconsider, that's their choice. If the majority of you do it, well the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and broad is the way, and wide is the path to everlasting fire. If you want to do it, be my guest!

[dairygirl4u2c]

i think you're just being stubborn regarding gene therapy. i think you knee jerked at the idea of "forced evolution" and are throwing the baby out with the bath water. i admit i'm uncertain about forced evolution, but curing disease etc... you're alone in that cause i'm by far not the only one who would think it has merit or at least should be looked at.
your continual "the road to hell" rhetoric just makes you look silly, like a typical protestant who does not debate.

you can say things like "does God want us to have inquisitions" and say that's what's wrong with the CC... but you have to debate that. you never do, when it's pointed out there's a difference between the teachings and the people who are sinners. like i said before... talking ot you is like talking ot a brick wall.... "christians have Killed" is the equivalent to what you answer everything with. people could not be christian with the reasoning you have. but we're getting too much into the actual issues for you......

instead of trying to emtotionally appeal to the weak here, instead of debating... why don't you either debate,,,, or lose the agenda and just be.
your agenda, combined with your refusal to actually debate the issues, is the biggest reason i don't like you.

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1511148' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:18 AM']I will examine myself. I can be wrong on a lot of things. I am not doing anything but shaking some people who shouldn't be trusted on this board.

I put up stuff that would threaten their world view on things. We have had people telling us for over 16 centuries that this person people call Pope is infallable, can't make any mistakes on morals and dogmas, and I see a whole bunch of them playing God, and will be very, very, very guilty before God when he asks them the tough questions.

How do we really know God wanted the first eight crusades? Do we really want to say, one hundred per cent that God wanted that? What if someone says that they are, and they weren't?

When someone says something is of God, and it isn't you are gambling with your soul, because Iniquity is to say something is of the Lord when it is not, or doing something within the spirit without God's guiding you down that path.

On your remarks with genetic engineering, sorry, I will never accept it, because it is one more step of man making himself God, because the number of man is 6, and the Mark of the Beast is 666, and since God's number is 3, Man makes himself God! We shouldn't be doing something that God himself should be the only one doing! We shouldn't be meddling in the process of how human beings are formed, because God forms in the womb, if we start interfering, than we make ourselves like God, because now we can form babies, custom made babies!

I believe some of the judgments, such as the plagues, will be God opening up another seal judgment which will befall men because they are playing God too much, and God will send the plagues they have made and that will kill billions of people! People shouldn't be meddling with how God created things. I will never reconsider, ever. If people want to reconsider, that's their choice. If the majority of you do it, well the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and broad is the way, and wide is the path to everlasting fire. If you want to do it, be my guest![/quote]

I don't think you really understand the Pope being infallible issue. If the Pope came out and said, I think everyone should wear yellow every day. Catholics could say, I don't think so. If the Pope declares a teaching having been revealed by divine revelation, I will rely upon his relationship with the Holy Spirit to have brought that out to him. How many times has any Pope really used that to begin with?
If you are going to live your life by the bible, don't forget where it came from. The Catholic Church. It is ours. There are bibles out there that are missing things and have been altered by man, not God, to let them live how they want to.
If you want to use it receive the WORD, that is great. I myself would much rather have someone like the Pope or the magesteriam intrepreting those things that were written cryptically (like revelations) than I would your interpretation. That is why I read the bible, over and over and I read what greater and holier minds than mine have to say about issues and then I take the meaning the Lord puts into my heart from all of it. Some of the Saints had very close personal relationships with our Lord and they were given many insights. It takes more than just sitting alone and reading the bible to know what it says. The Holy Spirit directed me to the teachings of the Catholic Church so, I know I can trust in that.