ICTHUS Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 On Catholic.com I found reference to a Sermon 227 and 272 of St. Augustine, in which he discusses the Eucharist. Where can I find these sermons in their full context, as newadvent only has Sermons on Selected Lessons of the New Testament, and there are only 97 sermons recorded there. These are the excerpts. Also, his Ennarations on the Psalms, no. 33 does not contain the words refereneced by the website. These are the references: "Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]). "I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord’s Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ" (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]). ... "What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith; yet faith does not desire instruction" (ibid., 272). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Sermons/Agustine.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Cmom, those sermons don't exist on that library (it only goes up to sermon 147) Also, the Ennaration on Psalm 33 doesn't contain what that quotation says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 hmmm........when i find the time i will do some research on this matter and get back w/ u. hang tight bro ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 I think I'll email Catholic.com and find out where exactly they got those excerpts from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 ICTHUS, I've found them! All 3 references occur in the new translations of St Augustine's works published by New City Press. 1. "Explanation 1 on Psalm 33" on p. 21 of Vol. 2 of Expositions of the Psalms, translated by Maria Boulding, OSB. 2. "Sermon 227" on p. 254 of Vol. III/6 (Sermons 184-229Z on the Liturgical Seasons), translated by Edmund Hill, OP. 3. "Sermon 272" on p. 300 of Vol. III/7 (Sermons 230-272B on the Liturgical Seasons), translated by Edmund Hill, OP. The page numbers refer to the exact pages your quotes come from. Adeo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 (edited) Hmmm...is there any way that I can order those volumes? Also, why doesn't New Advent have them? Edited February 24, 2004 by ICTHUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 It might also be a difference in numbering. I think I had trouble finding a sermon or something of St. Augustine's because the version used by ccel.org numbered them differently than my first source. I'll see if I can figure out how that worked... :book: :pebcam: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 You might also try William A. Jurgens™ The Faith of the Early Fathers vol. 3 (Collegeville, Minnesota:Liturgical Press; 1979). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 ICTHUS, I've found them! All 3 references occur in the new translations of St Augustine's works published by New City Press. 1. "Explanation 1 on Psalm 33" on p. 21 of Vol. 2 of Expositions of the Psalms, translated by Maria Boulding, OSB. 2. "Sermon 227" on p. 254 of Vol. III/6 (Sermons 184-229Z on the Liturgical Seasons), translated by Edmund Hill, OP. 3. "Sermon 272" on p. 300 of Vol. III/7 (Sermons 230-272B on the Liturgical Seasons), translated by Edmund Hill, OP. The page numbers refer to the exact pages your quotes come from. Adeo icthus, does that suffice to answer ur question, or do u need the info online? also, before u buy anything, i would check out the nearby public libraries to see if u can check it out instead. holla back, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Well, I'm not at home at the moment, I'm on a ski holiday in Kelowna, however, I have a membership at a large University library in Kingston, so I'll check up on that when I get home. Thanks for your scholarship, guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 ICTHUS, The volumes I quoted from are not cheap! The Sermons in particular are only available in hardback, are are quite pricey. Like you I couldn't find the references online, nor in my own set of Ante-Nicene and Nicene Fathers. One thing I did notice was that for the quote from the Ennarationes, it said literally "Explanation 1 on Psalm 33", and right after it there was a short "Explanation 2" which matched what I could find online. I know Jurgens gives the reference as 33.1.10, and the only way I could make sense of it was as 33. (1). 10, i.e. psalm 33, explanation (1), subchapter 10---and it worked, but only in Sr. Maria Boulding's translation. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTHUS Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 It would seem suspicious to our Separated Bretheren. I lost some credibility in a debate because I referenced Augustine saying something that the person I was debating couldn't find online.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 The stuff online doesn't have copyright problems. The newer editions are of course still bound up with these legal problems, like the writings of St Augustine you're after. Does a reference to printed books not count for the people you're debating with? Shame... I will keep looking, coz' this is a really important matter. A good place to start might be an encyclopedia on Augustine's works, which lists all the current editions and translations available. Something like an updated version of Quasten's Patrology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 This is from "Augustine through the ages: An encyclopedia", gen. editor Allan D. Fitzgerald, OSA (Eerdmans, 1999: Grand Rapids, Michigan & Cambridge, UK). 1. Enarrationes in Psalmos (p. 295) Translations Expositions on the Book of Psalms, 6 vols., in the series Library of the Fathers (Oxford: Parker, 1853-57), offers a stiff but reliable translation. The abridgement of that work in A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, First Series, vol. 8, unfortunately changes the Maurist section numbers, making comparison with the Latin difficult. Of only limited use for study is the loose translation of the homilies on Psalms 1-37, On the Psalms, vols. 29 and 30 in the Ancient Christian Writers series. A new translation of the Enarrationes is in preparation... (i.e. the one by Sr Maria Boulding). 2. Sermones (p. 792) Translations Augustine, Sermons, translation and notes by E. Hill, WSA III/1-III/11 (the translations in this article have been taken from this edition). I think online Patristics work has a long, long way to go to get complete, let alone updated, editions of the Fathers' works. By the way, this encyclopedia I'm quoting from is FANTASTIC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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