jeffpugh Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Sorry... though I do wanna know what Ardillacid means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1506544' date='Apr 22 2008, 07:52 AM']Un-Christian?[/quote] I think calling Americans "selfish greedy pigs" is un-Christian. Sorry if you don't agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1506595' date='Apr 22 2008, 10:09 AM']Sounds like one or the other needs to change.[/quote] So, are you willing to start by opening up your own home and your own backyard indiscriminately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 This whole issue really frustrates me. The problem is that we are a nation of laws and we have people coming here that don't think that they apply to them and come here illegally. This is wrong. Then these people then can't work legally and have to take whatever they can get which allows them to be exploited which is also wrong. This is creating an underclass. It is all so frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1506906' date='Apr 22 2008, 06:34 PM']I think calling Americans "selfish greedy pigs" is un-Christian. Sorry if you don't agree with me.[/quote] I think it is just stating a fact. It may be an unpleasant fact but, it isn't unchristian to reveal the truth. Ya know, like those corporations who pollute and cause deaths because they have such a love of money? Remember those guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [b]Americans are not "pigs", let alone "greedy selfish pigs". Again, how dare you. Speak for yourself. You preach about the Bible and the Eucharist and "living for Christ" and "charity", and yet you call your fellow Americans PIGS. Disgusting. This is one of the most generous countries in the world, both towards those inside our borders and outside our borders. Your comments are disgusting, inappropriate and offensive. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin86 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Deb' post='1506130' date='Apr 22 2008, 11:37 AM']Sorry, I was not referring to myself as a greedy selfish pig, just referring to the fact that WE do have the wealth in this nation to eliminate all poverty[/quote] Deb, with all those Scripture quotes I can't believe you missed the part where Jesus said "The poor will always be with you." America could divide all her money equally among everyone and we would still have the poor. As for calling Americans selfish greedy little pigs, oh come on. We give more money to charity than any other country on the planet. As for the evil corporations that kill millions of people daily for oil you can also spare me. If America was really all about getting the oil for our profits we would have taken over all the world's oil fields and make everyone else pay $100 a barrell for it instead of the other way around. Moving on to Madame Vinegar, while it's true that her "whatevers" get tiring and make her sound like an uneducated teenager she is still making some good points in this topic, and some very educated ones at that. If only she would [i]mature[/i] she would be a lot easier to deal with. Whatever she is she's not dairygirl. Madame is actually coherent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1507298' date='Apr 23 2008, 06:07 AM'][b]Americans are not "pigs", let alone "greedy selfish pigs". Again, how dare you. Speak for yourself. You preach about the Bible and the Eucharist and "living for Christ" and "charity", and yet you call your fellow Americans PIGS. Disgusting. This is one of the most generous countries in the world, both towards those inside our borders and outside our borders. Your comments are disgusting, inappropriate and offensive. [/b][/quote] Take your blinders off and can the "How dare yous." They are getting tedious. Typing in bold is just tacky. So, let me enlighten you just a bit. According to the Pew Global Attitudes Project which surveys around the world on many different things, this is what came out of their research about Americans: World views are more mixed about whether Americans are honest; only in the U.S., India, Britain, France and Germany is more than half of the public ready to use that word to describe Americans. On the negative side of the ledger, people around the world are generally inclined to say Americans are greedy and violent. Americans generally rate themselves better than does the rest of the world, but there are a couple of exceptions. Strikingly, Americans are more inclined than any other public in this survey to say their fellow Americans are greedy. Americans are about in the middle of the pack in rating their fellow Americans as immoral. When Enron tanked and stiffed thousands of employees with no pensions and took everything they owned, who walked off with hundreds of millions of dollars. Those people at the top were selfish, they were greedy and they were pigs. Have you ever witnessed pigs at feeding time? My words are accurate. When the S&L's tanked in the 80's, who walked away, without jail time and rich? It certainly wasn't those who had their life savings in them. Look at our housing market and the number of foreclosures. How many people got sucked into horrible loans at inflated costs and why? Because the people making money off them were selfish and greedy and pigs. Yes, we are a generous nation also. I never said we weren't. We also have a very large part of our population who are greedy, selfish pigs. Accept it. It is exactly my love of Christ and my walk with him that enables me to see the truth. It shows me who to pray for and what to pray for. It shows me how much prayer is needed in this country. Just because I can call a pig a pig doesn't detract from my being a Christian. The Lord says that if your brother sins, you are to rebuke him. Pretending that all is rosy and glorious in the US is just being naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Justin86' post='1507313' date='Apr 23 2008, 07:40 AM']Deb, with all those Scripture quotes I can't believe you missed the part where Jesus said "The poor will always be with you." America could divide all her money equally among everyone and we would still have the poor. As for calling Americans selfish greedy little pigs, oh come on. We give more money to charity than any other country on the planet. As for the evil corporations that kill millions of people daily for oil you can also spare me. If America was really all about getting the oil for our profits we would have taken over all the world's oil fields and make everyone else pay $100 a barrell for it instead of the other way around. Moving on to Madame Vinegar, while it's true that her "whatevers" get tiring and make her sound like an uneducated teenager she is still making some good points in this topic, and some very educated ones at that. If only she would [i]mature[/i] she would be a lot easier to deal with. Whatever she is she's not dairygirl. Madame is actually coherent.[/quote] Well, actually Justin, Jesus did not say, "The poor will always be with you" and mean it as you think he meant it. When the disciples were upset that a woman poured a costly amount of perfume on Jesus when it could have been sold and given the the poor, Jesus said, Why do you bother this woman, For she has done a good deed for me. For you always have the poor with you; but you do not always have me. For when she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial." Jesus was simply stating at that time, at that moment, that perfume was better used for his death than the poor. That Jesus was going to die soon but, the poor were still going to be there. He did not say, the poor are going to be there forever and ever, amen. Often works of charity are done for recognition of some sort and yet this woman used maybe her most expensive possession for service and worship. When you pull out one little piece of the message and elevate that as the point, you have missed the entire point of what Matthew 26 is all about. Another point....In the old testament and in the beatitudes, the Lord is speaking about those who are poor in spirit. They may also be poor in wealth or be rich but brokenhearted. David referred to himself as a poor man yet, he was King. He knew he was lacking of what only God could supply. I never brought up oil when I mentioned greedy corporations. Read my post. I can see where one might jump to that conclusion but, I didn't put that out there. It is hard to identify points of anyone who rants 99% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin86 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Deb' post='1507342' date='Apr 23 2008, 10:56 PM']Well, actually Justin, Jesus did not say, "The poor will always be with you" and mean it as you think he meant it. When the disciples were upset that a woman poured a costly amount of perfume on Jesus when it could have been sold and given the the poor, Jesus said, Why do you bother this woman, For she has done a good deed for me. For you always have the poor with you; but you do not always have me. For when she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial." Jesus was simply stating at that time, at that moment, that perfume was better used for his death than the poor. That Jesus was going to die soon but, the poor were still going to be there. He did not say, the poor are going to be there forever and ever, amen. Often works of charity are done for recognition of some sort and yet this woman used maybe her most expensive possession for service and worship.[/quote] Jesus told the Apostles the poor would always be with them. Bottom line. It doesn't matter that it was in reference to a burial (something which I already knew). If you don't want to see what Jesus plainly said that's your problem. [quote]Another point....In the old testament and in the beatitudes, the Lord is speaking about those who are poor in spirit. They may also be poor in wealth or be rich but brokenhearted. David referred to himself as a poor man yet, he was King. He knew he was lacking of what only God could supply.[/quote] Yes, and you're bringing this up why? If anything it could be used, and has been many times in the past, to support my economics over yours. [quote]I never brought up oil when I mentioned greedy corporations. Read my post. I can see where one might jump to that conclusion but, I didn't put that out there.[/quote] So what corporations were you accusing then? "No Blood for Big Macs."? "Sam Walton lied. People Died."? Edited April 23, 2008 by Justin86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin86 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Deb' post='1507332' date='Apr 23 2008, 10:39 PM']Take your blinders off and can the "How dare yous." They are getting tedious. Typing in bold is just tacky. So, let me enlighten you just a bit. According to the Pew Global Attitudes Project which surveys around the world on many different things, this is what came out of their research about Americans: World views are more mixed about whether Americans are honest; only in the U.S., India, Britain, France and Germany is more than half of the public ready to use that word to describe Americans. On the negative side of the ledger, people around the world are generally inclined to say Americans are greedy and violent. Americans generally rate themselves better than does the rest of the world, but there are a couple of exceptions. Strikingly, Americans are more inclined than any other public in this survey to say their fellow Americans are greedy. Americans are about in the middle of the pack in rating their fellow Americans as immoral. When Enron tanked and stiffed thousands of employees with no pensions and took everything they owned, who walked off with hundreds of millions of dollars. Those people at the top were selfish, they were greedy and they were pigs. Have you ever witnessed pigs at feeding time? My words are accurate. When the S&L's tanked in the 80's, who walked away, without jail time and rich? It certainly wasn't those who had their life savings in them. Look at our housing market and the number of foreclosures. How many people got sucked into horrible loans at inflated costs and why? Because the people making money off them were selfish and greedy and pigs. Yes, we are a generous nation also. I never said we weren't. We also have a very large part of our population who are greedy, selfish pigs. Accept it. It is exactly my love of Christ and my walk with him that enables me to see the truth. It shows me who to pray for and what to pray for. It shows me how much prayer is needed in this country. Just because I can call a pig a pig doesn't detract from my being a Christian. The Lord says that if your brother sins, you are to rebuke him. Pretending that all is rosy and glorious in the US is just being naive.[/quote] World opinion is very much irrelevent in determining whether or not Americans are selfish little pigs. As for the second part of your post, fair enough, but if you had just come out and said that [i]some[/i] Americans are selfish little pigs, instead of "we"(as if we all should feel some sort of collective guilt over other people's greed) then you would have saved yourslef a whole lot of headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Justin86' post='1507357' date='Apr 23 2008, 09:23 AM']World opinion is very much irrelevent in determining whether or not Americans are selfish little pigs. As for the second part of your post, fair enough, but if you had just come out and said that [i]some[/i] Americans are selfish little pigs, instead of "we"(as if we all should feel some sort of collective guilt over other people's greed) then you would have saved yourslef a whole lot of headaches.[/quote] Maybe world opinion is irrelevant to you as it obviously is to most of our government as evidenced by our actions lately but, it is still how we are viewed. I do feel guilt over the actions of my fellow Americans because I do love my country and the actions of my country reflect on me as an American. It is the same as I would feel shame if a member of my immediate family did something terrible. Overreacting to my phrase of We instead of some is just semantics and immature. I personally don't have any headaches, or anger or rage or inability to control my temper or my emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Deb' post='1507332' date='Apr 23 2008, 07:39 AM']Take your blinders off[/quote] [b]Once again, your REPEATED comments referring to Americans as "greedy selfish pigs" are profoundly offensive. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Justin86' post='1507350' date='Apr 23 2008, 09:14 AM']Jesus told the Apostles the poor would always be with them. Bottom line. It doesn't matter that it was in reference to a burial (something which I already knew). If you don't want to see what Jesus plainly said that's your problem. [i]No, that would be your problem Justin if you think that sentences can be pulled out of the context of bible reading and turned into whatever you want them to be. One of my earlier points is that we have the ability to eliminate poverty in our country but, not the willingness.[/i] Yes, and you're bringing this up why? If anything it could be used, and has been many times in the past, to support my economics over yours. [i]Read all the posts, maybe you can figure it out. What economics are you talking about? [/i] So what corporations were you accusing then? "No Blood for Big Macs."? "Sam Walton lied. People Died."?[/quote] [i]Again, go back and read my posts. You are so quick to critize them but, you obviously don't retain what they said for more than ten seconds. I believe I named several. [/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1507365' date='Apr 23 2008, 09:34 AM'][b]Once again, your REPEATED comments referring to Americans as "greedy selfish pigs" are profoundly offensive. [/b][/quote] Greedy Selfish Pigs. Greedy Selfish Pigs. Greedy Selfish Pigs. Greedy Selfish Pigs. Greedy Selfish Pigs. Greedy Selfish Pigs. I know you are but, what am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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