Franciscan Duo Lead “gay And Lesbian Catholics” Gathering

[mortify]

What do you think?

[img]http://calcatholic.com/newsimages/FrRusty0408.jpg[/img]

[b]“I Am Who I Am”[/b]
Published: April 15, 2008
[url="http://calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=b085f72f-8bce-4650-9d59-7379372d73e5"]Link to article[/url]

[color="#0000FF"][i]Priest duo again to lead spiritual get-together for “Gay and Lesbian Catholics” at order’s retreat house in Danville[/i]

As they did last year, Oakland diocesan priest, [b]Fr. Jim Schexnayder[/b] and Franciscan [b]Father Rusty Shaughnessy[/b], will direct a “Gay and Lesbian Catholics Retreat” at San Damiano Retreat House at Danville, in the Oakland diocese.

The April 25-27 retreat,[b] “I Am Who I Am – By the Grace of God,”[/b] will focus on the U.S. bishops 1998 pastoral message Always Our Children’s affirmation that “You are also of God, gifted and called for a purpose in God’s design,” says a retreat advertisement.

Always Our Children was a statement issued by the Bishops' Committee on Marriage and Family to the parents of homosexual children, and some bishops complained after it was made public that they had very little to do with its preparation. For example, [b]Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln, Nebraska, said the message “was composed without any input from the majority of the American Catholic bishops, who were given no opportunity whatever to comment on its pastoral usefulness or on its contents… The document, in a view which is shared by many, is founded on bad advice, mistaken theology, erroneous science and skewed sociology. It is pastorally helpful in no perceptible way.”[/b]

“Fr. Rusty,” who is known for his “scripture based presentations with twists of humor,” has led “retreats, workshops, and parish missions,” noted the retreat advertisement. At San Damiano he has directed married couples, young adults, men’s, and women’s retreats.

As co-founder and now resource director for the National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries, Schexnayder is a well-known voice in Catholic homosexual outreach. He was co-author of Always Our Children and is a priest of the Oakland diocese.

In the past, Schexnayder has asserted that, [b]since homosexuality can be separated from sexual acts, it can be considered in itself a gift.[/b] In a letter published in the September 18, 1998 National Catholic Reporter, Schexnayder wrote that Always Our Children “affirms 'sexual orientation (heterosexual or homosexual) as a deep-seated dimension of one's personality.' Clearly this is something to be integrated rather than denied or feared."

At a January 2002 talk at Santa Sophia parish in Spring Valley (San Diego diocese), Schexnayder said that "sexuality primarily has to do with who we are, not what we do, and it's [b]very similar to spirituality[/b], which is about who we are as persons, [but] it's much broader than that... Sometimes we think of complexity as a problem. It's also a gift. It's wonderful."

“Regarding sexual behavior, the Catholic Catechism... does not use the word ‘celibacy’ for gay and lesbian people; the word is ‘chastity,’” Schexnayder said at the same talk; and chastity, he said, is “about successful integration.” [b]As for homosexual unions, “I don’t think the Church is going to deal with gay and lesbian marriages, but in its history and those who have done research on this, the Catholic Church and other Christian churches like the Orthodox church, have in fact in history blessed same-gender unions as spiritual bondings, and there are saints who have had very committed relationships.” [color="#FF0000"](?)[/color]
[/b]
During the question and answer period following the talk, Schexnayder, asked how a homosexual act cannot be anything but a sin, replied, "[b]The more complex issue of ethical behavior is conscience, which is also Church teaching, is that we cannot in fact determine whether anybody commits a sin; only they can.[/b] We can talk about whether a particular objective behavior is considered by the Church or by others to be good or not good, but we cannot determine a sin, because sin by definition involves not only subjective evil but also a choice, a free choice, a knowledgeable choice. In fact, [b]we cannot determine whether a person is committing sin or not; only they can determine that, and conscience is part of it.[/b]"[/color]

[CatherineM]

Why don't the Fransicans kick out people who are publicly against the Church's teachings?

[Dreamweaver]

They're using a lot of words to try to skirt around the real issue of what the Church teaches about homosexuality. I just have the feeling that this isn't a retreat helping those people with homosexual attraction to live chaste lives...

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1501515' date='Apr 16 2008, 11:01 PM']Why don't the Fransicans kick out people who are publicly against the Church's teachings?[/quote]

Franciscans aren't the only ones. It's not a characteristic of any Order to keep unfaithful members; some just slip by for various reasons in all kinds of communities.

That said, this kind of thing makes me so angry. Their arguments are so invalid it makes me want to throw up.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Totus Tuus

[cmotherofpirl]

He is full of croutons. A disorder can NEVER be a gift.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1501601' date='Apr 17 2008, 09:12 AM']He is full of croutons. A disorder can NEVER be a gift.[/quote]

But isn't is the homosexual act that is disordered, not the orientation itself?

So, I've been wondering this recently: Why don't the traditionalist-leaning, super orthodox parishes have gay and lesbian ministries? Here we are complaining about what's happening here, but when it comes to actually doing something ourselves, we seem to prefer avoiding the topic.

Edited April 17, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[Theoketos]

The orientation is disordered also, though it is not sinful because it may not be voluntary.

[farglefeezlebut]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1501634' date='Apr 17 2008, 03:35 PM']So, I've been wondering this recently: Why don't the traditionalist-leaning, super orthodox parishes have gay and lesbian ministries? Here we are complaining about what's happening here, but when it comes to actually doing something ourselves, we seem to prefer avoiding the topic.[/quote]

I agree. There isn't enough being done to help LGBs to live according to Church teaching.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1501634' date='Apr 17 2008, 08:35 AM']But isn't is the homosexual act that is disordered, not the orientation itself?[/quote]

No, the orientation is disordered as well.

This is all just so gross!

Homosexual acts are disordered, unnatural and UNHEALTHY. Those who have these inclinations need to receive help. They don't need to be coddled and hand-held. They need to receive caring and compassionate mental health treatment.

[CatherineM]

Most larger dioceses have Courage and sometimes Encourage groups. They just keep them kind of low key.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1501634' date='Apr 17 2008, 10:35 AM']But isn't is the homosexual act that is disordered, not the orientation itself?

So, I've been wondering this recently: Why don't the traditionalist-leaning, super orthodox parishes have gay and lesbian ministries? Here we are complaining about what's happening here, but when it comes to actually doing something ourselves, we seem to prefer avoiding the topic.[/quote]
No. The orientation is an objective disorder, it CANNOT be a gift.

[prose]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1501634' date='Apr 17 2008, 08:35 AM']So, I've been wondering this recently: Why don't the traditionalist-leaning, super orthodox parishes have gay and lesbian ministries? Here we are complaining about what's happening here, but when it comes to actually doing something ourselves, we seem to prefer avoiding the topic.[/quote]

To be honest, I believe it is because there are not a lot of gay people beating down the doors to get into traditional, orthodox churches. Anyone can build a ministry for them, but will they come? I think the gays who want to be involved are truly few and far between.

In our Archdiocese, we run the Courage program. It is very well advertised, and in the ENTIRE Archdiocese, we have only had 3-4 men (never women) who wanted to be involved.

Now, let's say every parish dutifully set up a Courage program. Got staff trained, etc. etc.... Now, is it better to run 100 programs, where only 3 have one person each show up, or to have a more central source like the Archdiocesan office where all three can meet?

[goldbug16]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1501601' date='Apr 17 2008, 07:12 AM']He is full of croutons.[/quote]

What she said.

It's truly unfortunate that he believes this. I'm going to be praying for him and all those who go to this retreat.

[kujo]

I can't help but be reminded of the episode of South Park where Butters goes to a weekend retreat to *cure* his bisexuality, only to find that camps filled with gay kids are really just breeding grounds for homosexual behavior.

I don't know if that's the case here, but anyway.

Yeah, I think this guy's theology is quite a bit off. I'm surprised that the Franciscans haven't booted his keister.

[thessalonian]

He makes a couple of mistakes (at least). First of all it is true that we can't determine if they committed a MORTAL sin. But we can determine if they are sinning and damaging themselves and others. Secondly whether by the circumstances they sin may be lessened or not in each individual case we can quite objectively say that what they are doing is intrinsically evil whether they know it to be or not. Thirdly I doudt he is ever making this point with any gays. Fourthly, homosexuality is never a blessing. It may be a cross that blessings come out of by living the Churches teaching but it is not a blessing in itself. Fifthly these people need to be excommunicated.