A New Jihad, A New Crusade?

[Didacus]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1502423' date='Apr 17 2008, 11:39 PM']They've conquered numerous Christian lands before. Not weak Christians, either. Good, solid, warrior Christians. The Muslim invaders were simply too great a match for them in terms of military might. Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt. All Christian lands. The list goes on and on.[/quote]
These were conquests. If such an occurance occured, politics (secular or other in power) woulcd react and defend in this modern day IMO. There would be no need to tag a 'Christian' ticket on the war anymore than the US precense in Iraq is a christian war.

You are correct that the muslim have a barbaric past in the sense that they were conquerers; including Mohamed. Between the two, I recongnize the hand of the God by the peace he brougt with Jesus, rather than the wars won by Mohamed.


[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1502423' date='Apr 17 2008, 11:39 PM']They are working on France and England as we speak.[/quote]
In this modern day, this is a culture war. A 'war without guns' as my part of the world calls it (la guerre sans fusils).

I can personally testify that many and a growing number of young Quebec-born citizens are realizing the culture shock in the horizon and are beginning, more and more, of speaking in terms of civil war versus the immigrants. It is a sad outlook, but for for the moment, the 'war' remains cultural - though tentions seem to climb every year.

What I tell those young Quebec persons, is that the best way to combat such fears of loosing Quebec and all within it to others, is to maintain their Christian heritage and hold strong to FAMILY (traditional family) values. If Quebec carries on having the lowest birth rate in Northern America, nothing that Quebec is, or use to be, will ever matter anymore. At the current pace, in two generations, 65% of Quebec born will have disapeared!

I can note however, that the birth rate seems to be improving, amongst indigeneous Quebeckers. It is debatable lif this is too little too late.

Finally, I state again; 'Ne jamais placer sa confiance dans les hommes. Il faut la placer en Dieu, et en Dieu seul.'
'Never place your trust in men. We must place it in God and in God alone.'
Only then can we come to see clearly the silliness to fear holy wars or cultural/class struggles.

[Galloglasses]

Oh btw, the Secret Christian phrase I got from the actual Secret Christians in Japan. In the late middle ages, early imperial age, Catholic Missionaries in japan were shaking things up, the presence of a new Religion that was proving incredibly popular with the peasentry of Japan was a threat to the Daimyos and Shogun's rule. Hence, it needed to be put down and it was...violently, with the help of Dutch Protestants who were competing with Portugese merchants in the region. After the put down, the Catholics remaining swore to continue their faith only in absolute and total secrecy, as all contact with Rome was forcibly cut off in the Empire of Japan.... Until the end of World War II, Catholic Missionaries went back to Japan for the first time in centuries, the nearly extinct Secret Christians were divided, nearly half of those living in Japan returned joyfully in communion with the Church, the other half remained as a schismatic sect. (I have no idea why though), and still practice their faith in stringent secrecy to this day.

And by comparing JPII with Bennedict, I agree, Bennedict is a gentle man, but he's harser then JPII was. During the reign of JPII the Great, he was complacent to trust his archbishops to suggest candidates for Bishophood and he allowed them to be appointed. (Some think this is how very liberal Bishops came to power in the otherwise conservative reign of our beloved Papa), Bennedict by Comparison, scrutinises his Bishops carefully, liberals feel he's interferring to much, conservatives think he's doing what JPII ought to have done. I also get the feeling he is a take-no-cud kind of guy, which I don't think JPII was. JPII seemed to be a lot more easy going. This is why I get the idea if there is a serious Threat, our current Il Papa would do something drastic.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1502686' date='Apr 18 2008, 01:07 PM']Oh btw, the Secret Christian phrase I got from the actual Secret Christians in Japan. In the late middle ages, early imperial age, Catholic Missionaries in japan were shaking things up, the presence of a new Religion that was proving incredibly popular with the peasentry of Japan was a threat to the Daimyos and Shogun's rule. Hence, it needed to be put down and it was...violently, with the help of Dutch Protestants who were competing with Portugese merchants in the region. After the put down, the Catholics remaining swore to continue their faith only in absolute and total secrecy, as all contact with Rome was forcibly cut off in the Empire of Japan.... Until the end of World War II, Catholic Missionaries went back to Japan for the first time in centuries, the nearly extinct Secret Christians were divided, nearly half of those living in Japan returned joyfully in communion with the Church, the other half remained as a schismatic sect. (I have no idea why though), and still practice their faith in stringent secrecy to this day.[/quote]

You have a few details wrong. Japan lifted the ban against Christianity in the mid-1800s, not the end of WWII. By the time WWII came along the Catholic community of Nagasaki had been blossoming for nearly 100 years.

The hidden Christians that live as a sect are the Kakure Kirishitan, and they occupy many of the small islands off Nagasaki. These islands are where the Christians hid during the persecutions (some hid in the mountains of Nagasaki). They are not actually "hidden" anymore, nor are their practices "secret". Actually, I've heard from tourists who visit their islands that they are a very warm and generous people. They do retain some very unusual beliefs and customs. It's definitely fair to say they are not Catholics, nor anything resembling Christians, either. But they are interesting. Here's an article from Time Magazine:

[url="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,925197,00.html"]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,925197,00.html[/url]

I have written some details on Catholic Japan in this forum under the title "Japan".

Here's the link: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=79038"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=79038[/url]

Edited April 18, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1502628' date='Apr 18 2008, 11:10 AM']In this modern day, this is a culture war.[/quote]

Yep, that's what I said.

[Didacus]

ANy idea of how many Christian Japanese are alive today?

[Ziggamafu]

If Christendom were united again, maybe. But with a shattered Christendom and a liberalized world, not a chance.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1505380' date='Apr 21 2008, 08:06 AM']If Christendom were united again, maybe. But with a shattered Christendom and a liberalized world, not a chance.[/quote]

And the Jihadists are counting on that!

[Deb]

I think we are past the age of crusades. Each act of violence in Europe, regardless of who it is by, will be dealt with by the governments of the countries involved. I don't see the Pope having anything to do with it.
If they wander into Vatican City with evil intent, then he would.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1501424' date='Apr 16 2008, 07:40 PM']We all should have a mentality of spiritual crusade, if not physical. Don't kid yourselves, the Moslem threat is very real and very serious.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
agreed.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Deb' post='1506179' date='Apr 21 2008, 09:32 PM']I think we are past the age of crusades. Each act of violence in Europe, regardless of who it is by, will be dealt with by the governments of the countries involved. I don't see the Pope having anything to do with it.
[b]If they wander into Vatican City with evil intent, then he would.[/b][/quote]
Part of this hypothetical situation IS that they wandered into Rome with Evil intent. The Crusades were not funadamentally bad either so don;t assume we will entirely be above them.

[Deb]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1506715' date='Apr 22 2008, 01:57 PM']Part of this hypothetical situation IS that they wandered into Rome with Evil intent. The Crusades were not funadamentally bad either so don;t assume we will entirely be above them.[/quote]


Well then, the Swiss Guard will snap their tiny necks.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Deb' post='1506765' date='Apr 22 2008, 02:49 PM']Well then, the Swiss Guard will snap their tiny necks.[/quote]
Lmao XD

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1502686' date='Apr 18 2008, 02:07 PM']Oh btw, the Secret Christian phrase I got from the actual Secret Christians in Japan. In the late middle ages, early imperial age, Catholic Missionaries in japan were shaking things up, the presence of a new Religion that was proving incredibly popular with the peasentry of Japan was a threat to the Daimyos and Shogun's rule. Hence, it needed to be put down and it was...violently, with the help of Dutch Protestants who were competing with Portugese merchants in the region. After the put down, the Catholics remaining swore to continue their faith only in absolute and total secrecy, as all contact with Rome was forcibly cut off in the Empire of Japan.... Until the end of World War II, Catholic Missionaries went back to Japan for the first time in centuries, the nearly extinct Secret Christians were divided, nearly half of those living in Japan returned joyfully in communion with the Church, the other half remained as a schismatic sect. (I have no idea why though), and still practice their faith in stringent secrecy to this day.

And by comparing JPII with Bennedict, I agree, Bennedict is a gentle man, but he's harser then JPII was. During the reign of JPII the Great, he was complacent to trust his archbishops to suggest candidates for Bishophood and he allowed them to be appointed. (Some think this is how very liberal Bishops came to power in the otherwise conservative reign of our beloved Papa), Bennedict by Comparison, scrutinises his Bishops carefully, liberals feel he's interferring to much, conservatives think he's doing what JPII ought to have done. I also get the feeling he is a take-no-cud kind of guy, which I don't think JPII was. JPII seemed to be a lot more easy going. This is why I get the idea if there is a serious Threat, our current Il Papa would do something drastic.[/quote]
Man, you're full of cool stories... remnants of underground Christians in Japan...

btw, Culture of Life 4tw!

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1502703' date='Apr 18 2008, 03:07 PM']You have a few details wrong. Japan lifted the ban against Christianity in the mid-1800s, not the end of WWII. By the time WWII came along the Catholic community of Nagasaki had been blossoming for nearly 100 years.

The hidden Christians that live as a sect are the Kakure Kirishitan, and they occupy many of the small islands off Nagasaki. These islands are where the Christians hid during the persecutions (some hid in the mountains of Nagasaki). They are not actually "hidden" anymore, nor are their practices "secret". Actually, I've heard from tourists who visit their islands that they are a very warm and generous people. They do retain some very unusual beliefs and customs. It's definitely fair to say they are not Catholics, nor anything resembling Christians, either. But they are interesting. Here's an article from Time Magazine:

[url="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,925197,00.html"]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,925197,00.html[/url]

I have written some details on Catholic Japan in this forum under the title "Japan".

Here's the link: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=79038"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=79038[/url][/quote]

Ah, great article.
I don't think they're Christian either... if they still had hiarchy, maybe their faith would not have been scewed. Maybe there are a bunch of reasons why they don't worship the same way (I guess losing the Latin prayers and their meanings are a big factor). It's sad and strange. I say that the old underground "tradition" should pass...There is no need for it now that they can access the truth. (too bad some are not open to it though).