A New Jihad, A New Crusade?

[Galloglasses]

I was reading [url="http://skojec.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/that-ol-third-secret/#respond"]this post[/url] in a blog I frequent, the guy is an overt islamophobe, but he seems to be freaking out about the possibility of a great Jihad.

He sees a connection between the recent threat against the Church by a muslim cleric to coincide with the third Fatima prophecy which has yet to come true. His fears are heightened by a book, Caliphate, a sci-fi dystopia novel that seems to be a good, (but horrifying), read. He's not jumping the gun and saying that it WILL happen, he says that the book's history to present day is so accurate of modern day demographs, attitudes and situations in Europe it could happen.

Anyone who's read it can comment about it, otherwise I'd say ignore that part.

What I was wondering, if Rome is attack, will the Pope, (or God-forbid, the Roman Curia during the iterim period between Popes), call a crusade or something similar, what would happen?

The poll's multi-choice.

[goldenchild17]

I go with 4th and 5th choices. I don't think he would and I don't think anyone would answer, at least no one that could make a difference. I don't think he would because I think he'd want to try and use it as an opportunity to spread peace. Besides I don't believe the 3rd secret has been revealed yet, and I personally believe he knows that, so I don't really think that will come as a huge factor, unless he forces it.

Edited April 16, 2008 by goldenchild17

[Malachi Crunch]

A religious crusade could be called - that is a non-violent eccumenical crusade involving apologists, historians, theologians, politicians and good will embassadors to discuss the matters at hand with the Islam leaders.

I also feel that the Pope would appeal to believers to have an abundance of children, especially in Europe as I hear there is a negative population growth amoung native populations. However, the word "crusade" would never be used by the Vatican.

There are too many possibilities as to how something like this would come about, so it's difficult to say how the Catholic Church would exactly respond. But non-violence and good catechesis amoung the faithful is the key.

[CatherineM]

They won't have to come with swords, they will eventually win just by out producing us in the baby department.

[Didacus]

Those who would reply with violence would first be the secular groups in my opinion. They are far less tolerant, less respectful of life, and have no acceptance of anything that threaten their perceived 'freedom' or way of life.

[kujo]

Let's not get to their level.

[Socrates]

I'd have no problem whatever morally with a modern crusade.

But I think it extremely unlikely the Pope would call for one in this day and age.
Nothing to do with conspiracies, or "third secrets," etc., though.

We all should have a mentality of spiritual crusade, if not physical. Don't kid yourselves, the Moslem threat is very real and very serious.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1501424' date='Apr 16 2008, 08:40 PM']I'd have no problem whatever morally with a modern crusade.

But I think it extremely unlikely the Pope would call for one in this day and age.
Nothing to do with conspiracies, or "third secrets," etc., though.

We all should have a mentality of spiritual crusade, if not physical. Don't kid yourselves, the Moslem threat is very real and very serious.[/quote]

I believe JP the Great would disagree. He believed holding our Catholic culture sacred and practising is fervently was the best method of facing even physical threats.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1501587' date='Apr 17 2008, 05:48 AM']I believe JP the Great would disagree. He believed holding our Catholic culture sacred and practising is fervently was the best method of facing even physical threats.[/quote]
He would have a point. If the muslims saw an intense and vigorously strong Catholic Culture, they would think twice.

The crusades are still fresh in their memories, they would fear provoking another one

[Didacus]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1501805' date='Apr 17 2008, 11:52 AM']He would have a point. If the muslims saw an intense and vigorously strong Catholic Culture, they would think twice.

The crusades are still fresh in their memories, they would fear provoking another one[/quote]

That is aside from what JP the Great intended.

During Nazi occupation in Poland, he could have taken up arms like many others his age to fight the Nazi regime, instead he formed along with others a secret theater in order to perpetuate the culture beyond the Nazi occupation. This thinking he also applied to Communist occupation and versus liberation theology. If you doubt his tactic; compare Poland's culture to other Europeen cultures on this modern day when you have the chance.

His outlook was profound and based in total trust in Christ. As George W. puts it in JPtheG biography, Karol believed the Word to be more powerful and anyone who would have doubts about his belief would doubt His (Jesus') Word itself.

I am convinced JPtheGreat would never, NEVER have called a physical, war-like crusade.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1501815' date='Apr 17 2008, 12:07 PM']That is aside from what JP the Great intended.

During Nazi occupation in Poland, he could have taken up arms like many others his age to fight the Nazi regime, instead he formed along with others a secret theater in order to perpetuate the culture beyond the Nazi occupation. This thinking he also applied to Communist occupation and versus liberation theology. If you doubt his tactic; compare Poland's culture to other Europeen cultures on this modern day when you have the chance.[/quote]
I am more then a little aware of the potency of the secret Christian tactic, and I am more then aware of the stupendous effect it had to preserve Poland, [i]and Lithuania[/i], during the long winter of communism. Afterall, the Irish used the same thing during hte Penal Laws. I was not doubting his tactic, I don't know what made you think that, I was remarking that from the[i] muslim[/i], perspective, a common and strong Catholic faith prevelent here in the west would dissaude any idea for Jihad. Or at least to a degree.

[quote]His outlook was profound and based in total trust in Christ. As George W. puts it in JPtheG biography, Karol believed the Word to be more powerful and anyone who would have doubts about his belief would doubt His (Jesus') Word itself.

I am convinced JPtheGreat would never, NEVER have called a physical, war-like crusade.[/quote]
I would heartedly agree with you, JP the Great was a far too gentle a man to consider it, God bless and love him. But what of our current Papa? If he was faced by a very real threat of Islamic extremists targeting him or attacking Europe. Right now there is more threat of the Pope being assassinated by a muslim extremist then JP II had when he was shot by a Turkish man, hired by the communists. Today we have a different, more dangerous circumstance, (altough that is argueable, JP the Great had the Cold War and Commies to deal with)

[mortify]

How would our Catholicity affect the Muslim desire to conquer us?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1501424' date='Apr 16 2008, 08:40 PM']I'd have no problem whatever morally with a modern crusade.

But I think it extremely unlikely the Pope would call for one in this day and age.
Nothing to do with conspiracies, or "third secrets," etc., though.

We all should have a mentality of spiritual crusade, if not physical. Don't kid yourselves, the Moslem threat is very real and very serious.[/quote]

Yep.

But what we need is a cultural and spiritual crusade. We need to live our lives with dignity but with a warrior spirit. And we need to hold fast to the freedoms that are dear to us. We need to defend them and protect them and not back down from them. After all, regardless of what our religion is, freedom is an unalienable right given to all people by our Creator and no one has the right to take it from us.

Muslims are not coming in with guns and swords. What we are witnessing--and it's only just beginning--is a cultural jihad. It is the slow encroachment upon our freedoms and our equalities, a gradual whittling down of our culture. They are using our freedoms and our tolerance as a society against us to achieve their own goals. And those goals are submssion to [i]sharia[/i] (Islamic law) over the whole earth...or death.

The guns and swords come later, when you haven't submitted to the cultural jihad fast enough for their liking.

It's all in the Koran and in 1,400 years of Islamic history and in the life of Mohammed himself: they start with oppression first, then forced submission, then violence and war.

The notion that this can't and won't happen in the 21st century is a sure death wish. We don't need to panic and lose sleep over this, but we need to educate ourselves and stay alert.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='mortify' post='1502297' date='Apr 17 2008, 09:51 PM']How would our Catholicity affect the Muslim desire to conquer us?[/quote]


They've conquered numerous Christian lands before. Not weak Christians, either. Good, solid, warrior Christians. The Muslim invaders were simply too great a match for them in terms of military might. Syria, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt. All Christian lands. The list goes on and on.

They are working on France and England as we speak.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1501832' date='Apr 17 2008, 12:24 PM']I am more then a little aware of the potency of the secret Christian tactic, and I am more then aware of the stupendous effect it had to preserve Poland, [i]and Lithuania[/i], during the long winter of communism. Afterall, the Irish used the same thing during hte Penal Laws. I was not doubting his tactic, I don't know what made you think that, I was remarking that from the[i] muslim[/i], perspective, a common and strong Catholic faith prevelent here in the west would dissaude any idea for Jihad. Or at least to a degree.
I would heartedly agree with you, JP the Great was a far too gentle a man to consider it, God bless and love him. But what of our current Papa? If he was faced by a very real threat of Islamic extremists targeting him or attacking Europe. Right now there is more threat of the Pope being assassinated by a muslim extremist then JP II had when he was shot by a Turkish man, hired by the communists. Today we have a different, more dangerous circumstance, (altough that is argueable, JP the Great had the Cold War and Commies to deal with)[/quote]
I did not think you were doubting, I was simply trying to bring a little clarity from my original statement which I had believed you went a little to the side of the intended meaning.

I'm glad you're aware of the 'secret Christian' tactic... though I don't think its much of a secret. Not sure what you mean there.

I agree a united and strong Christian faith would be cause of concern for those wishing a jihad, however, it could also be a source to strengthen their propaganda. Difficult to tell in strategically this would work in favor or against in a radical muslim's perspective.

I sincerely believe papa-Ben XVI is every bit as gentle as JPtheGreat. In fact, the more I know him, (as I readthrough his words, pseeches, history, books he wrote, ect...) I grow convinced that he shares in the identical, one and the same, holiness which animated JPtheG. I cannot perceive, at this time, he would call for a holy war of any kind.