Who Will The World Blame?

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1502188' date='Apr 17 2008, 08:28 PM']First of all,

Stop believing everything you hear in the media. As a former Journalism Student, I know there is only about 6 corporations that own 80 per cent of the popular media in the world. If they want you to have a certain world bent, they give that bent - like All Muslims are evil sociopaths ready to blow themselves up to destroy you good Christians!

If you actually believe the above sentence, you need to realize, most Muslims are like most Catholics, honest men and women who love God, and wouldn't do anything like that, and they avoid mad men like the leaders of the Taliban and Al Qeada like the plague, like we avoid madmen like David Koresh.

Second of all,

Have faith in God friend. The glass is half-filled. God has those people who would do something like that in his eyes, and he will recompense those who are truly responsible.

I don't think there will be this huge Muslim Uprising against Catholicism and Rome. Osama Bin Laden, if he is still alive - because it would be hard to hide out if you need Kidney Dialysis three times a week - only has a handful of young men to carry out his bidding. Way to few to lay siege on the Vatican! Give you head a shake!

Third of all,

Want to prevent this 'attack' make Muslim friends, and do what Paul says, when you're with the Muslim, be like the Muslim, so you can win him over to Christ!

Nuff said about world politics.[/quote]
Escuse me missy, I study political science, i'm more then a little aware of how the media is manipulated. I am talking about the extremists who present a very real threat, especially if they follow this wacko's Jihad against Rome, (which seems rather Random, given that the Pope condemned the Muhammod cartoons thing)

On your first point; I am studying Islam in my school's religious education class, I'd really rather not but our RE class is controlled by the school board and not by the Church so go figure. The Muslims who are like most Catholics and wouldn't consider that are, in actuality, bad muslims, the exact same way most Catholics these days tend to be cafeteria Catholics. There is no such equivilence in terms of percentege in Islam. In Islamic countries, the Church IS the State et vice versa, so if an Islamic nation calls Jihad (for whatever reason against whatever foe), you'd be a pretty bad Muslim if you didn't go along with it. And their avoidence of madmen like Al-Quieda is very Muslim of them and warranted. Al-Quieda are Muslim heretics, but what if their nation becomes sympathetic to them?

Second point; I realise that, that doesn't mean I don't fear for other people's lives who may fall because of Jihad. Like that Chaldean ArchBishop in Iraq who was kidnapped and murdered for no reason, and the priest who was killed there recently. Can I not be outraged over this? God's Justice is absolute, but it is our duty to prevent injustice where it occurs, both to prevent the injustice and to prevent the sinner from perpetrating the injustice.

And what makes you think some of the extremist minority won't take the cleric's word seriously? You need only a hand full of young [i]women[/i] to suicide bombs. And Al quieda and te Taliban are not the only extremists about. A siege is not neccesary to bring a city to its knees in the modern world. Look at 9/11, a handfull of young men perpetrated that on an unsuspecting American population and shook the world to its core. If you don't take the threats from extremists seriously you're being naive.

Third point; I already am, well, I've actually grown out of contact with my Muslim friend, but its very hard to convert a Muslim. Their religion is solely fundamentalistly scriptural, less spiritual scripture then say Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy. The only way to convert a Muslim, honestly, if he was a bad muslim, a Muslim who seriously needed help, or you perform a miracle before them. Remember, most Muslims treat the Qua'ran as the very utterance of God, with a hell of alot more ferocity then most Christians treat the Bible. Converting a Muslim would be a special Miracle in itself.

Fourth point; why the hell did you try to attack me with this? I was putting forth a hypothetical situation and its aftermath, then asking you to state who you'd think the world would blame most and why. I wasn't advocating violence against Islam, I just take the extremist's threat seriously.

[Madame Vengier]

BLAME CANADA!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

But cereally, I cast my vote for "blame America". I've no doubt that whatever goes wrong in the world it will somehow (falsely) be traced back to Big Bad Imperialist America. No matter what it is, where it happens, or who the perpetrators are.

It's the trend of the day. And I have something to say about that...but it involves too many unbecoming words and I am a lady!

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='kujo' post='1500148' date='Apr 15 2008, 03:17 PM']I think it's important to draw the distinction between [i]radical[/i] Islam and [i]moderate[/i] Islam. The [i]radicals[/i] do not represent the entire religion, no matter how loud and obnoxious they are.[/quote]

Kujo, you don't study/research Islam much, do you?

The radicals most certainly do represent "pure Islam" and not only that, they have enormous sway over the ones you believe are "moderate". The radicals, as everyone loves to call them, are only following the teachings of the Koran, the Hadith, and the supreme model of Islamic life himself, Mohammed. They are true Muslims, just braver than the so-called "moderates".

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1502642' date='Apr 18 2008, 12:30 PM']BLAME CANADA!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

But cereally, I cast my vote for "blame America". I've no doubt that whatever goes wrong in the world it will somehow (falsely) be traced back to Big Bad Imperialist America. No matter what it is, where it happens, or who the perpetrators are.

It's the trend of the day. And I have something to say about that...but it involves too many unbecoming words and I am a lady![/quote]
I agree, even many of the Americans will somehow blame us. I once had a nun tell me that the reason there are corrupt governments in the world is because the United States made them corrupt.

[Lena]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1502240' date='Apr 17 2008, 10:34 PM']Polls show aound 10% of the world's Muslims would actively support Jihad (when you look at total numbers, this is not an insignificant group). Most of the rest have not said they would oppose it.
Islam teaches that all Christians and Jews are infidels who have rejected Mohammed as The Prophet, and deserve to live in submission to Muslims unless they accept Islam. The goal is Islam is to rule the world. "Islam" means "submission."
That is not the belief of a few extremists, but orthodox Islamic dogma.

This "religion of peace" tripe is pure bs.
The agression of Islamists around the world is well documented.
Check it out: [url="http://jihadwatch.org/"]http://jihadwatch.org/[/url][/quote]

Islam means submission [i]to God[/i], not the way you're using it.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Lena' post='1502755' date='Apr 18 2008, 03:12 PM']Islam means submission [i]to God[/i], not the way you're using it.[/quote]


No he's right, Islam on its own means Submission, and Muslim means one who submits. Its submission to Allah, but to be more accurate, it'd be a longer phrase. Thats if you're taking the name literally, but in the norm it means Submission to Allah.

[Lena]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1502780' date='Apr 18 2008, 04:34 PM']No he's right, Islam on its own means Submission, and Muslim means one who submits. Its submission to Allah, but to be more accurate, it'd be a longer phrase. Thats if you're taking the name literally, but in the norm it means Submission to Allah.[/quote]

yes thats what I said. literally, it doesn't mean all Muslims want other non-Muslims to submit [i]to[/i] them though.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Lena' post='1502782' date='Apr 18 2008, 03:41 PM']yes thats what I said. literally, it doesn't mean all Muslims want other non-Muslims to submit [i]to[/i] them though.[/quote]
No that IS in the Quar'an, Jews and Christian who don't accept the Word of Allah given to the Prophet Muhammad are to be tolerated but made as second class citizens and given a special tax.

Pagans either convert or die, no literally, thats in there.

And they've divided the world into the House of Islam and the House of War, everybody who isn't Muslim resides in the house of war who are at war with Allah, basically meaning an honest Muslim immediately sees non-muslims as enemies of Allah.

[Lena]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1502785' date='Apr 18 2008, 04:45 PM']No that IS in the Quar'an, Jews and Christian who don't accept the Word of Allah given to the Prophet Muhammad are to be tolerated but made as second class citizens and given a special tax.

Pagans either convert or die, no literally, thats in there.

And they've divided the world into the House of Islam and the House of War, everybody who isn't Muslim resides in the house of war who are at war with Allah, basically meaning an honest Muslim immediately sees non-muslims as enemies of Allah.[/quote]

my point is that there are plenty of everyday Muslims who don't wish to see America go up in flames.....and there's a difference between radical religious extremists and other Muslims. and the radicals don't represent the norm, or at least the actions, of the people who are Muslim and just want peace.

sorry-I mean "the West" I shouldn't just say the US.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Lena

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Lena' post='1502792' date='Apr 18 2008, 03:49 PM']my point is that there are plenty of everyday Muslims who don't wish to see America go up in flames.....and there's a difference between radical religious extremists and other Muslims. and the radicals don't represent the norm, or at least the actions, of the people who are Muslim and just want peace.[/quote]
Do you honestly think i'm ignoring that fact? the extremists use violence in words and deed is unneccesary, but they're the ones who aren't dilluting the teachings of the Qua'ran. Why is it that i'm being constantly accused that i'm refferring to all muslim when in fact, i'm referring to their Holy Scripture more then that?

[Lena]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1502797' date='Apr 18 2008, 04:52 PM']Do you honestly think i'm ignoring that fact? the extremists use violence in words and deed is unneccesary, but they're the ones who aren't dilluting the teachings of the Qua'ran. Why is it that i'm being constantly accused that i'm refferring to all muslim when in fact, i'm referring to their Holy Scripture more then that?[/quote]

well, I think in referring to their holy scripture it can dangerously be taken out of context. I'm not saying you are or aren't, but I'm just thinking of how easily non-Christians can view Christianity out of context from some random quote they pulled out of the Bible and use it against Christians. Without understanding past, present history, the language it was written in, cultural attitudes, etc.

I wasn't accusing you BTW. Just giving an opinion.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Lena' post='1502807' date='Apr 18 2008, 04:00 PM']well, I think in referring to their holy scripture it can dangerously be taken out of context. I'm not saying you are or aren't, but I'm just thinking of how easily non-Christians can view Christianity out of context from some random quote they pulled out of the Bible and use it against Christians. Without understanding past, present history, the language it was written in, cultural attitudes, etc.[/quote]
I already said i'm studying Islam in Religious Studies, (which I'd rather not be doing, it really is quite boring sometimes, its mostly ritual. And I was rather placid to Islam most of my life till the extremists threatened Rome), And I have studied the History extensively, most of what Islam is is taken from Christian, (mostly heretic), teaching, Jewish scripture and native pagan influences passing through Arabia at the time of Muhammad. Whats new is the stuff most of us think is despictable. You're treating me as if I am ignorent of Islam and how it came about I assure you I am most certainly not. I will not call Islam an evil Religion because in that regard I have no right to Judge.

But some of what it teaches is, in the Christian sense, sinful.

I understand you are trying to present the dissenting voice, (In the sense you are trying to point your fellow posters to the other arguement and/or possibilities), a position which I respect you for, i've played that part all too many times. Even with regards to Islam. (I remember a thread where the posters where discussing institutionalised peadophilia in Islam which I thought was rediculous and tried to point it out. NOT on this forum mind)

[quote]I wasn't accusing you BTW. Just giving an opinion.[/quote]
You may have tried to but you didn't, you were, as I said, trying to make me 'see the other side of the fence' as it were, not giving me your actual opinion on the matter. But fair play to you none the less.

Edited April 18, 2008 by Galloglasses

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1502724' date='Apr 18 2008, 02:31 PM']I agree, even many of the Americans will somehow blame us. I once had a nun tell me that the reason there are corrupt governments in the world is because the United States made them corrupt.[/quote]

Sounds like Sister Mary of the Passive Candle Half Lit is in the wrong job.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Lena' post='1502755' date='Apr 18 2008, 03:12 PM']Islam means submission [i]to God[/i], not the way you're using it.[/quote]

First of all, Mohammed's deity is called "Allah", not God. Allah is not an Arabic translation of the name we call the Creator of All Things. Allah is some thing completely different who bears no resemblance whatsoever to the One, True God.

Secondly, the word "Islam" means "Submission". Period. Submission to Allah. Submission to Sharia. Submission to the Koran. Submission to Islamic culture. Submission to the pure model of Islamic life, Mohammed himself.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Lena' post='1502792' date='Apr 18 2008, 03:49 PM']and there's a difference between radical religious extremists and other Muslims. and the radicals don't represent the norm, or at least the actions, of the people who are Muslim and just want peace.[/quote]

See, here's what I don't understand, and maybe you can help me out, Lena. What is exactly *is* the difference you speak of? Because, see, I hear a lot of people say what you just said, that the nice Muslims are different from the radical Muslims. But no one ever elaborates on just exactly *how* they are different.

Are the nice Muslims different because...well, because they're nice? Can that be all? Because the way I see it, being "nice" versus being "radical" in and of itself is really not enough to draw a huge dividing line. They share the same religion, the same Islamic culture, the same Islamic history, the same Koran, the same hard-line reverence for Mohammed (a pedophile, murderer and war-mongerer), the same Hadith. So I don't get it. What's the big difference?

I mean what is so BIG about the difference that every single time someone begins a conversation about the dangers of Islamofascism, someone has to immediately interject with "they're not all like that". Okay, if they aren't then why is Islamofacism spreading all over the world, un-checked and un-challenged?

Because surely all those untold numbers of "nice Muslims" should be making a dent in their culture by now...shouldn't they?