Why Do Certain Communities Object To Aspirancies?

[alicemary]

God go with you as you continue on your journey. I think spending even a month with your future community will give you a good idea what they are all about. Yes, the call to religious life may be the craziest thing you ever ponder. Somehow when a soul is touched by the love of our Lord, it is never the same again. Regardless of whether you enter or not, this time will be well spent. You will come back home with a clearer direction. Above all have fun and be yourself, you are quite special and very unique.
Please fill us in when you return.
Alicemary

[jkaands]

FYI, there's a Vocation Forum on forums.catholic.com which includes a long thread of women, including a number of young women, considering religious life. They are visiting communities, including non-habited ones, and ones filled with older members.--if anyone wants to dip in, visit, or join the forum.

[HisChild]

As someone who was in a monastery and then left, might I interject?

This was, granted, two years ago, but when I returned there were a couple here who did make a big deal that I left and through their responses made me feel as though I was a failure. These were responses all in private, however, and you'll never read any more mention of this from me, because MOST everyone was completely supportive, believing that first and foremost my vocation is to holiness, and not to a particular state in life. And in defense of those who responded... well, I was in a very hurting, dark place, and wasn't able to 'hear' some well meaning words. All is well... our Lord brought me around in His way, and in His time.

As to this thread... I wanted to mention, however, that had I had an aspirancy, I [b]might[/b] have been able to learn of some of the things that I did as a postulant and discern that the community wasn't for me... as it was, I became ill and had to leave anyway. But the point is, an aspirancy might have been revealing.

HOWEVER, (and this is pretty big, IMO) there are many things one must experience in order to discern fully. I know of an aspirant to the monastery I was in that loved the community. However, once she became a postulant, she lasted less than a week. As an aspirant, you may not see things in the same light as a postulant. As an aspirant, for instance, cloistered life might not seem restrictive. After all, even if only subconsciously, you know you'll be leaving in 6 weeks or 3 months. As a postulant, you've jumped in with both feet and fully realize you're there for good. Cloistered life have a different feel then. Any romantic notions you may have clung to as an aspirant are gone. There are other idiosyncracies or even more serious issues within a community that may not be revealed until you're fully immersed as a postulant or even later.

In the end, an aspirancy, while helpful to many, isn't an indication or a litmus of perseverance. It may assist one in deciding if she should enter, but it doesn't seem like there'd be great stats that she'd stay. Hope I made sense.

[johnnydigit]

very intriguing thread! i am discerning the CFR's in New York and i am way out here in California. i've only visited them once for 9 days, and hope they invite me back for the 2 week stay, and if that goes well, then invitation for the 6 month postulancy. i wish they were local so that i could visit them more often, and maybe even do extended stays that might be considered "aspirancy".

the initial thought of it sounds like a good idea, but for me, i don't think it would matter either way. over the past couple years of discernment, i think i have discovered what i need to discover about religious life enough to know if an order is more or less acceptable enough to me to enter as a postulant. if it doesn't work out there, on to the next, no big deal. let God lead the way.

perhaps since i'm not looking at the cloistered life i'm not as concerned about what the professed do in the enclosure. at my next Benedictine visit, they will let me eat with and interact with them more. if i'm still in the dark about a lot of their life yet want to enter anyways, well i don't think i'd hesitate and just go for it. if it turns out to be bad later, well so be it. leave. it would be a learning experience. let God lead the way.



so i guess my theme is, don't worry about it! inquire as much as is reasonable for you, and ask God to lead you and trust in Him. if it works out, great. if not, leave. don't worry about the "what if's". so like a broken record, just trust in God!

maybe i'm just really naive and/or really inexperienced and/or really stupid.. ah who cares, "let go and let God!" i just know i'm happy and at peace now and will let "Jesus take the wheeeeeel". if one door closes, He'll open another.

is it them, or is it really you? is it about trust? here, have a kit-kat bar!

[alicemary]

It is not always easy, however, to enter as a postulant when you own a home, car, are enolled in school, have debts to settle. Truly you believe when you enter, you will be staying forever, but we all know that doesn't always happen. At least if you have stayed with the community for some time you have a general idea of how things are. I think we are mostly talking about enclosed communities here. If it were an active community, I would definetly say you must must spend time with them and live their life. Emails and letters may be fine as an introduction, but believe me, I want to know what I am getting into.
Certainly, a month visist is not going to answer all your questions, calm all your fears. I have written to communities and felt that 'this was it'. When I visisted it was a totally different feel. Some things, like community spirit, sisterly charity can only be felt and experienced. And a prayer life is far beyond a set schedule. Do they really live their prayer life? Or do they run to chapel and off to their jobs and leave Jesus in the chapel.
When you are young, you certanly can just take off and join. You have your parents to fall back on if you don't persevere in the life. What if you sold your home, car and possessions and have nothing to return to. Just ask any of those that left in their postulancy. It is very difficult to return to secular life, and not even have any money left to start over. Many sold all their possesions before they entered and gave the money to charity.
I would certainly recommend investing that money and letting it grow when you do enter. If you make vows, then the money can either be given to the community or to ones family.
I feel for those who tried the life and did not stay. The postulancy is a time for exploration, but when they return home they find judgement has been placed on them. And to a person they state that slowing down and taking more time getting to know the community better may have helped.
Sorry, am too talkative this am!

[AccountDeleted]

johnnydigit you have the right attitude, so keep it as long as you can! We all need to trust more in God since it is His call we are trying to answer. As alicemary pointed out however, sometimes it gets a little harder as one gets older. When I was younger I had much more courage to start all over again when things didn't work out in some area, but now that I have less options to choose from, it gets a little scarier and even more trust is required.

Like some of the others here, I have had to start over again - no job, no car, etc... and like holychild, I have spent some time in the dark, hurting place at the idea of being a failure despite lots of support from others. So trusting has become just a little more of a challenge, although I know it is the only way to proceed.

It does seem like there are more and more stages being added to the whole discernment process however, without actually changing the fact that, as alicemary pointed out, one still must live the day to day life "as if it were a permanent state" in order to truly get the feel of the whole commitment.

So it does come back to trust, trust, trust. You think God's trying to teach us all something?

Edited April 14, 2008 by nunsense

[HisChild]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1499071' date='Apr 14 2008, 07:59 AM']johnnydigit you have the right attitude, so keep it as long as you can! We all need to trust more in God since it is His call we are trying to answer. As alicemary pointed out however, sometimes it gets a little harder as one gets older. When I was younger I had much more courage to start all over again when things didn't work out in some area, but now that I have less options to choose from, it gets a little scarier and even more trust is required.

Like some of the others here, I have had to start over again - no job, no car, etc... and like holychild, I have spent some time in the dark, hurting place at the idea of being a failure despite lots of support from others. So trusting has become just a little more of a challenge, although I know it is the only way to proceed.

It does seem like there are more and more stages being added to the whole discernment process however, without actually changing the fact that, as alicemary pointed out, one still must live the day to day life "as if it were a permanent state" in order to truly get the feel of the whole commitment.

So it does come back to trust, trust, trust. You think God's trying to teach us all something?

[/quote]

I am sorry you were hurting after leaving the monastery. It is SO hard to start over! Inner thoughts and prayers like, 'Should I just buy some furniture, etc. to tide me over or treat this as if my vocation is in the world?' Did you have a good and supportive parish to return to?
Feel free to PM me at any time, should you have need.

Yours In the Sacred Heart,

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1499038' date='Apr 14 2008, 07:43 AM']It is not always easy, however, to enter as a postulant when you own a home, car, are enolled in school, have debts to settle.[/quote]

that does sound tough, and i guess i'm blessed to not have much other than a car and a a little debt. while i was still unsure whether or not i was suited for religious life, i found myself starting to do little things that resemble the religious life. from daily Mass to modest dress, cleaning out my room and removing possessions, to recently throwing out my bed. i've felt that i don't really need anything and could survive on nothing for a while.

perhaps it's about whether or not you are sure about religious life? maybe it would be easier if you reached a point where you were ready to sign off the home, car, and everything, find a temporary place to live (unless they do have a live-in aspirancy), and just put it into God's hands to find you an order? kinda like just grabbing your backpack and heading out on your journey with no attachments, versus having a bunch of luggage, appointment book, bills, cell phone and whatnot to carry along.

now that i know i am not only suited for religious life, but that i actually want to and am eager to get started, i find it much easier to just trust and let God handle everything. i just go to whatever presents itself. visit? sure. diocese? um, ok. nebraska? sure. new york? sure. this order, that order? sure. not "oh wait i got bills.. gotta work that day.. i have appointments.." gotta find out for yourself personally, using reasonable deduction of course.

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1499071' date='Apr 14 2008, 08:59 AM']johnnydigit you have the right attitude, so keep it as long as you can! We all need to trust more in God since it is His call we are trying to answer. As alicemary pointed out however, sometimes it gets a little harder as one gets older. When I was younger I had much more courage to start all over again when things didn't work out in some area, but now that I have less options to choose from, it gets a little scarier and even more trust is required.

Like some of the others here, I have had to start over again - no job, no car, etc... and like holychild, I have spent some time in the dark, hurting place at the idea of being a failure despite lots of support from others. So trusting has become just a little more of a challenge, although I know it is the only way to proceed.

It does seem like there are more and more stages being added to the whole discernment process however, without actually changing the fact that, as alicemary pointed out, one still must live the day to day life "as if it were a permanent state" in order to truly get the feel of the whole commitment.

So it does come back to trust, trust, trust. You think God's trying to teach us all something?

[/quote]

hehe i know there was a time when i would laugh at what i said. i almost make myself sick! hopefully it'll last and i can sustain the faith, if not continually grow, or get through the dreaded Dark Night if it comes..

prayers for you all!

[Guest Perpetualove]

What about the PCC's? When I was looking at them, they were totally, one hundred percent against a live-in. Has that changed? I know you can visit, but not "inside." Thanks in advance, Perpetualove

PS Thanks so much for sharing your stories...I had a similar experience which I will share at some point. I too felt like a failure, a complete disaster, and I still cry when I think about it! So...when I get my courage up, I will share, too! In the meantime, it's nice to know I'm not alone!

[DameAgnes]

I know the Carmelite Sisters of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in Los Angeles has something like a 90% "success" rate with their new postulants, and they credit it to their extended formation - their candidacy/aspirancy lasts from 1-2 years during which time the aspirants take part in the work, study and prayer life of the community although they live near them rather than "within" the community. Then the postulancy which is from 6 mos to a year, and so on.

[url="http://www.beautyofcarmel.org/"]http://www.beautyofcarmel.org/[/url]

As I said earlier, I think there are arguments to be made for aspirancies, particularly these sorts of really extended ones. One month might be nice but as someone else said, it may not be time enough to get you past a romantic notion. Aspire and work with sisters for a year or so, you probably have a much better sense of them, the community, what you can bring to it, etc, and their overall health.

[Guest Perpetualove]

Dame Agnes,
The Carmelites you are referring to are an active community. That is very different than what some of the others, in particular, Nunsense, have been talking about. It's much easier getting to know a community that is "out and about" than one that is cloistered - especially if they have Papal enclosure. I've spent a lot of time with the Carmelites of the Sacred Heart, and they are a very open, upbeat community. It is easy to get to know them, get questions answered, etc.
It has always been my understanding that a live-in/aspirancy was geared more for the contemplative/monastic orders, and I thought that's what we were talking about.
I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong. Thanks, Perpetualove

[DameAgnes]

Hi Perpetual Love -

True. But I thought I had read somewhere on the thread the mention of active orders. I could be wrong; I often am.

A

[johnnydigit]

i dreamed twice last night about going to make my next visit, and the next thing i know, i'm home early. i was very sad and was wondering what happened, then realized it was because i was not accepted and sent home. gee thanks a lot for the downer guys! just kidding, i think i'm ready for it =P


[quote name='DameAgnes' post='1499474' date='Apr 14 2008, 04:49 PM']I know the Carmelite Sisters of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in Los Angeles has something like a 90% "success" rate with their new postulants, and they credit it to their extended formation - their candidacy/aspirancy lasts from 1-2 years during which time the aspirants take part in the work, study and prayer life of the community although they live near them rather than "within" the community. Then the postulancy which is from 6 mos to a year, and so on.[/quote]

probably isn't fair to compare 90% unless you include the aspirants who left. e.g. i think with the CFR's their postulancy success rate is like 10-20% with no aspirancy, and they have about the same volume (10 this year).