Hiding A Medal In A Mosque

[puellapaschalis]

Hi Pham,

on another forum I read a post which encouraged us to take some blessed Miraculous Medals and hide them in mosques (and synagogues, but mosques were the first aim).
The poster told us of a similar campaign (for want of a better word) in another city - where people had hidden these medals in various inconspicuous places and prayed continually for the stopping of Islam with Our Lady's help.

It now transpires that of the city's thirty-nine mosques, most will be closed and only nine very large mosques will continue on, and it's claimed that this isn't a coincidence.

I'm not sure what to think of this myself, although my instincts say that it would be disrespectful to sneak the medals away there. The campaign of prayer seems a better way to carry it out, together with a personal apostolate of engaging with people we meet in our daily lives. But tucking the medals away in the building seems a bit clandestine...but what do you all think?

[God Conquers]

Sounds a bit odd to me...

[CatherineM]

I've heard of people just putting them on the street in China as a way to reach people. I could see putting them outside the mosques, but non-Muslims aren't supposed to enter mosques without permission. There are so many un-churched to evangelize to. Maybe you could find a way of trying to reach out to them.

[Galloglasses]

I know a friend of mine who's local shop was selling occult stuff that was attracting and apatheticising them, (My friend himself bought it for a while), and he hide the medal on top of the doorway out of site. He also kept praying constantly that it would stop selling the rotting stuff.

I can't remember what he said but it worked to a degree, i'm not sure if secretly hiding a medal on someone else's property is deceitful or clandesdine or not. But if it is then it could be argued, so is praying for another person without their approval or knowledge.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I am not sure what to think about this.

I pray for the conversion of Muslims, especially my numerous Muslim friends. I am always particularly happy when I get the opportunity to talk to them about Our Lady - they have a greater respect for her than most Protestant Christians I've met. When I was in the village of Ein Kerem in the Holy Land (formerly an Arab village called Ayn Kareem, before it was demolished and repopulated with Jewish settlers) I found that one of the few remaining mosques incorporates the spring that is known as Mary's Well. Elizabeth and Zechariah lived in Ein Kerem, and it is believed that Mary would have used this particular well when she was staying there. This is a belief shared by the remaining Muslim population, and they tend to that well very lovingly.

But while Mary is always a good person to begin with in evangelism for these very reasons, I'm not sure whether leaving miraculous medals in mosques is the most sensible way to explore that avenue. For one thing, Muslims believe that it is disrespectful to make an image of any prophet or holy person, as they think it can lead too easily to idolatry. Any Muslim stumbling across such a medal might see it as a degredation of Mary rather than a way of honouring her, and just be confirmed in their suspicions about holy images - it might seem to them as though whoever left the medal in the mosque was putting their trust in the medal itself.

They might also be justifiably upset to think that strangers had been in the mosque without invitation. The mosque is somebody else's property - owned by a particular person or governing body and maintained by the wider Muslim community. We can't just barge in. I have always been welcomed very courteously by imams and mosque administrators whenever I've visited masajid, both here and at home in Saudi, but I would never betray that trust and courtesy by sneaking in unobserved. It would be plain rude. I wouldn't do that to anybody's property.

Finally, I think it's important to remember that miraculous medals, green scapulars, etc. shouldn't be treated as good luck charms. They are tangible aids to prayer. I have a green scapular in my room, but it is only valuable in that it reminds me to pray and keeps me aware of Mary's Immaculate Heart. Without that awareness, it would just be a square of green fabric with an image of the Immaculate Heart stiched on it. As with all sacramentals, what matters the most is how you make use of them. There is something questionable about the practice of leaving them all over the place, as if they give off special Catholic vibes that knock people unconscious as soon as they walk into the room. What matters is the prayer they ought to inspire.

Edited April 11, 2008 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[alicemary]

I think it is disrespectful toward another religion. And it treats the medals like they are some kind of heathen charm. Very strange idea and not appropriate. And when they are found they will be thrown in the trash or worse. Whats the point? The influence of Mary does not require a small circle of medal

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1497432' date='Apr 11 2008, 05:30 PM']I think it is disrespectful toward another religion. And it treats the medals like they are some kind of heathen charm. Very strange idea and not appropriate. And when they are found they will be thrown in the trash or worse. Whats the point? The influence of Mary does not require a small circle of medal[/quote]
No but it does help.

I'm not entirely sure its disrespectful, afterall the medal is your property that your putting there. Could it be interpreted as a gift?

[zwergel88]

Why is there a need to do this at all? Islam is a beautiful religion, the sister religion of Christianity and its followers should be respected. If they choose of their own accord to convert that is fine, but I don't understand the desire to evangalize Muslims and Jews. Surely most of them know of Christianity, but have chosen the religion they were born into, so why not just let them be what they want to be? Maybe I'm missing something, but to each his own, right? We all believe in the same God.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1497466' date='Apr 12 2008, 01:10 AM']Why is there a need to do this at all? Islam is a beautiful religion, the sister religion of Christianity and its followers should be respected. If they choose of their own accord to convert that is fine, but I don't understand the desire to evangalize Muslims and Jews. Surely most of them know of Christianity, but have chosen the religion they were born into, so why not just let them be what they want to be? Maybe I'm missing something, but to each his own, right? We all believe in the same God.[/quote]

The Church teaches that while there may be some truth in other religions, only Jesus can offer the fullness of truth. This is why he left us with the Church as His legacy. If it didn't matter what religion people belonged to, presumably He would have left His mark in a less tangible way.

I used to pray and practice as a Muslim. I was not born a Muslim and I never formally took my [i]shahada[/i] (reciting the Islamic profession of faith in front of witnesses), preferring to be a kind of free-floating monotheist with roots in Islam, so you couldn't consider me as a Muslim in the full sense of the term. I was hunting for truth from a very early age and I found some of it in the religion that surrounded me in Saudi Arabia, the country where I have spent most of my life to date.

Did I have a relationship with God when I was living out Islam? Yes, of course. I have a lot of warm respect remains for the Muslim friends and neighbours who were influential in my childhood and adolescence - especially in the development of my prayer life. Few things upset me more than Muslim-bashing. (And yes, I realise that self-styled Islamic experts are going to post now with some nice gory verses from the Qur'an to 'prove' to me that my friends were really out to lull me into a false sense of security and then smell of elderberries my blood in the middle of the night, or else that I was naive and brainwashed.) But it is precisely because of my love and affection for these friends that I would like them to know Jesus. They gave me so much when they taught me the importance of prayer and the practice of [i]dhikr[/i], the remembrance of God. And now I have something to give back - the fullness of Truth that dwells within the tabernacle just a ten-minute walk way from my house. Jesus is wonderful when you think he's an honoured prophet. When you realise that he is the Son of God, the Word Incarnate, the awe is indescribable. So many things fall into place, as any convert or revert knows. Of course I want my friends to have that.

I believe that the best approach to evangelism is to focus on what people already are than what they are not. In sharing the Gospel with Muslims, it's important to be responsive to their respect for the Blessed Mother and the emphasis they place on prayer. To a Muslim who is accustomed to making [i]salat[/i] five times daily, it can often seem as though Christians just don't care about God enough to make windows for Him in their day. So my response to this is to let my Muslim friends leaf through my breviary. All of them without exception have appreciated the purpose of the Divine Office very much. They especially like the fact that it is referred to as 'God's work'. It is little things like this that enable them to correct distorted perceptions of Christianity.

I would never agree with someone who thought that the ideal way to evangelise to Muslims is to triumphantly underscore every act of violence in the Qur'an and present Muhammad as a bloodthirsty paedophile, before blasting any Muslim who limps away from this exchange (feeling hurt and angry) as morally deficient/a closet terrorist/spiritually blind. That really, really angers me. I've seen too many people do it. I won't have people talking to and about my friends and family members like that. That's not evangelism. That's not right.

To evangelise Muslims it is necessary for us to undergo a change in perception ourselves. For example, compare the apostle Paul's first reaction to the crucifixion with that of the average Muslim. Paul found the whole thought horrifying and repulsive. Muslims find the whole thought horrifying and repulsive. We who venerate the cross sometimes forget what a stumbling-block it really is - what a sign of contradiction to the world. [i]The foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom...[/i] We can't appreciate this verse unless we really know how the crucifixion looks. Not a sanitised religious symbol, but a thing 'to make men screen their faces'. Muslims have the beginning of this appreciation, and I envy them for it - great faith and understanding can grow from it. I pray to St Paul to intercede for them.

This is just one example of the shift in perception that needs to happen before evangelism can even take place. The idea of leaving miraculous medals in the masajid doesn't take any of these subtleties into account. It doesn't take [i]people[/i] into account. Just 'the Muslims' - a shadowy faceless group that needs to be amalgamated into the Catholic Church without delay.

In fact, I don't think Puella's original post even spoke about evangelism, just about 'stopping Islam', which is an entirely different thing...

Edited April 11, 2008 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[mortify]

Cathanonymous made some good points in her posts and I agree that such a thing would not be a good idea.

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1497466' date='Apr 11 2008, 06:10 PM']Why is there a need to do this at all? Islam is a beautiful religion, the sister religion of Christianity and its followers should be respected. If they choose of their own accord to convert that is fine, but I don't understand the desire to evangalize Muslims and Jews. Surely most of them know of Christianity, but have chosen the religion they were born into, so why not just let them be what they want to be? Maybe I'm missing something, but to each his own, right? We all believe in the same God.[/quote]

This is a very common misunderstanding. Certainly there is truth in Islam such as belief in one God and even the virgin birth, but there is a lot of falsehood as well. Islam explicitly rejects the Divine Sonship of Christ, and it even goes so far as to say that the Crucifixion never happened, it was all an illusion(!!) I don't think I could call such a religion beautiful since it flagrantly rejects the agony Jesus went through to save us. Denying the crucifixion can only be the product of a false prophet who never understood or never came in contact with mainstream Christianity, and so we should wish for Muslims to know the truth about Jesus instead of remaining in error.

Indifferentism, relativism, and pluralism are among the most common heresies of these days, and they undermine our Catholic faith. As one saint said, Jesus said He is the Truth, not the custom of a particular time.

God bless

[farglefeezlebut]

I agree that entering a mosque without permission would be disrespectful. Miraculous medals don't work because the metal circle has magic powers, they work because they encourage people to pray. The piece of metal doesn't do anything. It is prayer that does things. Wearing the medal is an act of prayer if you believe in the Catholic faith.

[Ziggamafu]

Remember that sacramentals - and a medal would be a sacramental if blessed - can especially be used by God to mediate his grace to the world. Our prayers are heard and call down God's grace and intervention, to be sure; but it is an article of Catholic faith that sacramentals are methods of obtaining more of this grace than would otherwise be granted to us. Try not to forget the many, many miracles associated with sacramentals - especially holy water, the crucifix, the rosary, the scapular, and the miraculous and benedictine medals. Especially in the case of the Miraculous Medal, which did not earn its name for nothing...

I tend to believe in the apparitions of Mary that encourage such practices as leaving sacramentals behind as a token of faith in the grace of God upon a particular person, place, or situation (such as in the visions regarding the Green Scapular) and I think the concept is perfectly biblical. Nevertheless, I would indeed exercise caution when such action involves places full of strangers and non-Christians. There would certainly be a danger of the sacramental not being properly and respectfully disposed.

[Deb]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1497466' date='Apr 11 2008, 07:10 PM']Why is there a need to do this at all? Islam is a beautiful religion, the sister religion of Christianity and its followers should be respected. If they choose of their own accord to convert that is fine, but I don't understand the desire to evangalize Muslims and Jews. Surely most of them know of Christianity, but have chosen the religion they were born into, so why not just let them be what they want to be? Maybe I'm missing something, but to each his own, right? We all believe in the same God.[/quote]

I am not really sure that those born into Islam in the middle east have ever been given a chance to even explore Christianity. They do not have the freedom to read the bible or walk into a church of another faith like we do. I tried on many churches when running from the Catholic Church because I could do that with total freedom.
I am not sure about the medal thing although, I have thought of doing it at one of my friend's houses. I have been known to put Holy Water and bless co-workers cubicles when they aren't there.

[Paddington]

If you are okay with it being destroyed upon discovery.
And if you think an absent Catholic's prayers are strengthened by it when they could've just kept it by their side as they prayed.

[Justin86]

Well, I've never heard that you needed someone's permission to enter a mosque. You need to take off your shoes, but permission, what? Do Muslims have a religious ID card or something that gets them access to all mosques throughout the world?

As for hiding medals in the darken corners of mosques, I don't know enough to truly opine, but I will say that whatever works to save a soul, do it.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Justin86