Is America The Greatest Nation On Earth?

[dominicansoul]

[img]http://www.stonewalldemocrats.org/us-flag-640x480.jpg[/img]

"My country 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
To thee we sing..."

I'm a Patriot. I was born and Raised in TEXAS. My family hails from Valencia, Spain, made their way across the Atlantic, and then settled in Juano Juato, Mexico. Because the Mexican government began persecuting the Catholic faithful in the early years of the 20th century, my devout Catholic family escaped to Texas, and generations later, I was born.

My family came to this great country for religious freedom...

My family has never been desolate. With our strong work ethic, My family has always been much more prosperous than our relatives in Mexico. Our country has always been a place where our dreams could be realized, and opportunities abound.

I am happy for being born in this country because I can go to Mass everyday, and worship our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament without anyone telling me I can't. I can pursue a Religious Vocation without worrying about getting my head lobbed off because I am an infidel to others.

This country is beautiful, from the Florida everglades, to the high peaks of the Rockies, from the plains of Texas to the great Lakes. Every state has something beautiful to offer. Our country is awesome! The people of our nation come from all different backgrounds, making the American Culture intricately diverse.

The United States of America was formed and founded with powerful Christian ideals. America hasn't always stuck to these ideals, especially now....but that's when the Patriots must step up and stand up for what America truly is. We aren't a liberal nation. We aren't a pro-choice nation. We aren't an atheistic, marxist nation. We are being hi-jacked by those who have made it so...but in a sense...America will always be America as the Constitution formed it to be...but the Constitution needs to come alive, and not remain just words on paper. I believe that the "true" America is living in the hearts of devout Christians, and we have to defend our Constitution, and change the corruption that has afflicted our nation for so long.

I don't know anything about other nations. My heart is here in this one. It's not perfect, but to me, it is the greatest nation on earth, and I would die to defend it!

Edited April 19, 2008 by dominicansoul

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1503304' date='Apr 19 2008, 12:50 PM']I know exactly what CatholicMax is saying. There is a stretch of road that I drive regularly where the houses are small and very run down. However, there are new Escalades parked out front. The car is worth more than the house! There are people who are poor here but generally they are not the ones crying poverty.[/quote]

But that isn't always the case. I just read the other day that the West End of Louisville (which would be where most of the run down "ghetto" neighborhoods are) has the lowest level of car ownership anywhere in the city, so apparently many people can't afford a car at all. Same is probably true in just about every city in the country. Some of the people living in those neighborhoods actually do have good jobs, but I'm sure like the rest of America, they're in debt to their eyeballs. If we call out black people for buying Escalades, how about calling out white people for buying humongous houses? We're all living above our means; only difference is the poison we choose.

There are also many other variables to consider. The poor generally don't know how to manage money, so they're even more likely to fall into the debt trap. They also lack the connections in the business and professional community that are vitally important to establishing their own careers. They suffer from broken families, so kids tend not to care about education and their future. So for your own sake, remember that God will judge us by the measure we use to judge others. I hope you don't presume to be so holy that you can roll those dice (er, no pun intended).

[Socrates]

[quote name='misereremi' post='1499884' date='Apr 15 2008, 04:17 AM']I agree with what Era said.
quite true. I heart the American people and I was an American citizen, so I do see both sides. I think the American government is just as rotten and LIBERAL as most of the West.[/quote]
Depends on how you define the word "liberal." Everybody knowlegable on the issue seems to agree that overall the governments of Europe and Canada are significantly more socialistic than that of America. This fact is recognized by those on all sides of the issue - they only disagree as to which system is better.
(Though this is changing, and may no longer be true under a Hillary or Obama presidency combined with a Dem congress.)

[quote]If greatness is equated with wealth, then I think there is the question of how is that wealth obtained. I've seen people suffering because of the West- like people in Ghana struggling to provide clean water and food for their kids because their livelihood (rice farming) was taken away from them by US agricultural subsidies- the profits go to a big rice company in Arkansas because people don't buy local anymore. Then you get people from Africa trying to emigrate to the US and UK to get jobs so that they can send money back home to help feed those people. In the UK we diss China a lot for its human rights abuses but we're quick to dump our waste there (among other things) and cause people there to suffer. It's convenient to ignore all these things because we the people aren't doing this directly, but they are there even when we change the channel. So yeah, fairplay to those who say we're great, but do we recognise at whose expense this is?[/quote]
I think these problems are more those of "globalization" and free trade than specifically evils of America.
America has arguably suffered more than profitted from such globalization, with factories shutting down and manufacturing and tech jobs being lost to outsourcing and overseas competition. And China has certainly profitted at the loss of American manufacturing. (I see America's growing reliance on China for manufacturing labor to be a serious problem - for America).
While that is a whole debate in itself, my point is that you can't paint this as an issue of big bad America and Britain screwing over the rest of the world.
While you may complain about problems for Ghanan farmers, what about the countries around the world whom America helps feed? And is it the fault of the US and UK that they have better job opportunities?

[quote]I agree that in America the Pro-Life Movement is bigger and more vocal. I'm not sure if you meant political presence of pro-life MPs, or the presence of a pro-life movement (as in organisations)? Because if it is the latter, there are many pro-life movements in Europe. And by Europe I include the UK. In France I know of 'Laissez-les-Vivre', in Belgium there's Pro-Vita, I think in Denmark it's called Foroya Provita, in Italy we have a number of movements like MPV that are under attack by the socialists. There are many more. In the UK we have Life and SPUC, the Good Counsel Network. Our numbers may be smaller, but [b]we exist[/b]!

I think America is great because there are many God fearing people who live the faith, and aren't afraid to show it. I think England is a great nation....because it's the dowry of Our Lady. God bless.[/quote]
Maybe I didn't word that precisely enough. I shouldn't have said pro-life movements don't exist in other parts of the world, more that they tend to be much less prominent in the public sphere. And that one anecdotal story was about a conversation I had eight years ago - this girl did seem to notice that the abortion issue was much more prominent over here politically.
My point wasn't that everything's great and wonderful morally in America (it's not), but to counterbalance all the negativity about America by pointing out some positive things Americans are doing in this area.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Socrates

[Socrates]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1503356' date='Apr 19 2008, 12:01 PM'][img]http://www.stonewalldemocrats.org/us-flag-640x480.jpg[/img]

"My country 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
To thee we sing..."

I'm a Patriot. I was born and Raised in TEXAS. My family hails from Valencia, Spain, made their way across the Atlantic, and then settled in Juano Juato, Mexico. Because the Mexican government began persecuting the Catholic faithful in the early years of the 20th century, my devout Catholic family escaped to Texas, and generations later, I was born.

My family came to this great country for religious freedom...

My family has never been desolate. With our strong work ethic, My family has always been much more prosperous than our relatives in Mexico. Our country has always been a place where our dreams could be realized, and opportunities abound.

I am happy for being born in this country because I can go to Mass everyday, and worship our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament without anyone telling me I can't. I can pursue a Religious Vocation without worrying about getting my head lobbed off because I am an infidel to others.

This country is beautiful, from the Florida everglades, to the high peaks of the Rockies, from the plains of Texas to the great Lakes. Every state has something beautiful to offer. Our country is awesome! The people of our nation come from all different backgrounds, making the American Culture intricately diverse.

The United States of America was formed and founded with powerful Christian ideals. America hasn't always stuck to these ideals, especially now....but that's when the Patriots must step up and stand up for what America truly is. We aren't a liberal nation. We aren't a pro-choice nation. We aren't an atheistic, marxist nation. We are being hi-jacked by those who have made it so...but in a sense...America will always be America as the Constitution formed it to be...but the Constitution needs to come alive, and not remain just words on paper. I believe that the "true" America is living in the hearts of devout Christians, and we have to defend our Constitution, and change the corruption that has afflicted our nation for so long.

I don't know anything about other nations. My heart is here in this one. It's not perfect, but to me, it is the greatest nation on earth, and I would die to defend it![/quote]
God bless you!

Edited April 20, 2008 by Socrates

[Deb]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1503356' date='Apr 19 2008, 01:01 PM'][img]http://www.stonewalldemocrats.org/us-flag-640x480.jpg[/img]

"My country 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
To thee we sing..."

I'm a Patriot. I was born and Raised in TEXAS. My family hails from Valencia, Spain, made their way across the Atlantic, and then settled in Juano Juato, Mexico. Because the Mexican government began persecuting the Catholic faithful in the early years of the 20th century, my devout Catholic family escaped to Texas, and generations later, I was born.

My family came to this great country for religious freedom...

My family has never been desolate. With our strong work ethic, My family has always been much more prosperous than our relatives in Mexico. Our country has always been a place where our dreams could be realized, and opportunities abound.

I am happy for being born in this country because I can go to Mass everyday, and worship our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament without anyone telling me I can't. I can pursue a Religious Vocation without worrying about getting my head lobbed off because I am an infidel to others.

This country is beautiful, from the Florida everglades, to the high peaks of the Rockies, from the plains of Texas to the great Lakes. Every state has something beautiful to offer. Our country is awesome! The people of our nation come from all different backgrounds, making the American Culture intricately diverse.

The United States of America was formed and founded with powerful Christian ideals. America hasn't always stuck to these ideals, especially now....but that's when the Patriots must step up and stand up for what America truly is. We aren't a liberal nation. We aren't a pro-choice nation. We aren't an atheistic, marxist nation. We are being hi-jacked by those who have made it so...but in a sense...America will always be America as the Constitution formed it to be...but the Constitution needs to come alive, and not remain just words on paper. I believe that the "true" America is living in the hearts of devout Christians, and we have to defend our Constitution, and change the corruption that has afflicted our nation for so long.

I don't know anything about other nations. My heart is here in this one. It's not perfect, but to me, it is the greatest nation on earth, [b]and I would die to defend it![/b][/quote]

So, have you served in the military?

[XIX]

I can't, for the life of me, understand how one's opinion of America has morphed into a right vs. left issue.


Partisan politics can seriously lead to some inanely nonsensical side-taking.

[rachael]

[quote name='XIX' post='1506947' date='Apr 22 2008, 06:53 PM']I can't, for the life of me, understand how one's opinion of America has morphed into a right vs. left issue.[/quote]
Because it always does. Someone's gotta bring in the politics.

[XIX]

I just don't see how "rating your own country" is related to being against tax cuts, or how that issue is related to immigration, or how any of those issues relates to abortion, or how any of those issues relates to the war (maybe loosely tied to abortion and taxes)

Yet we have somehow created a social convention where one's stance on taxes can be a strong predictor of one's stance on ten other issues. Because if you favor low taxes, then clearly, you must be conservative on all sorts of other unrelated issues.

[rachael]

I know, it makes me angry too.

[Deb]

Me three.

[XIX]

me seven

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1503304' date='Apr 19 2008, 11:50 AM']It is easier to be a victim than it is to be responsible. There is a difference between the poor who lack opportunity and those who [i]choose[/i] not to take the opportunities that they are given.[/quote]


[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1503952' date='Apr 20 2008, 06:23 AM']But that isn't always the case. I just read the other day that the West End of Louisville (which would be where most of the run down "ghetto" neighborhoods are) has the lowest level of car ownership anywhere in the city, so apparently many people can't afford a car at all. Same is probably true in just about every city in the country. Some of the people living in those neighborhoods actually do have good jobs, but I'm sure like the rest of America, they're in debt to their eyeballs. If we call out black people for buying Escalades, how about calling out white people for buying humongous houses? We're all living above our means; only difference is the poison we choose.

There are also many other variables to consider. The poor generally don't know how to manage money, so they're even more likely to fall into the debt trap. They also lack the connections in the business and professional community that are vitally important to establishing their own careers. They suffer from broken families, so kids tend not to care about education and their future. So for your own sake, remember that God will judge us by the measure we use to judge others. I hope you don't presume to be so holy that you can roll those dice (er, no pun intended).[/quote]

The only reason I used the example about run down house and expensive cars is because my original example was just too unwieldy. I am sorry if it offended you. By the way, the idea that we are all living above our means is not true.

I noticed that you chose not to say anything about the meat of what I was trying to say. Where does personal responsibility factor into what you are saying?

The underprivileged are rightly given opportunities to advance themselves that are not open to others and yet many fail to take advantage of them. There are programs for people to help learn how to manage their own finances. There are scholarships to help help those who can't afford school. There are programs to help them take advantage of the programs available to them. The bottom line is that you can only help someone to the extent that someone is willing to help himself.

[misereremi]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1504412' date='Apr 20 2008, 10:30 PM']Depends on how you define the word "liberal." Everybody knowlegable on the issue seems to agree that overall the governments of Europe and Canada are significantly more socialistic than that of America. This fact is recognized by those on all sides of the issue - they only disagree as to which system is better.
(Though this is changing, and may no longer be true under a Hillary or Obama presidency combined with a Dem congress.)[/quote]
Oh ok- I mean liberal as in adhering to the error of Liberalism as defined by the Church. And with Clinton or Obama it's only going to get worse. Maybe I'm being pessimistic. And bitter ( I was all for Ron Paul). I think we have people in power who just don't represent us at all. We've got Gordon Brown...who wasn't even voted in.
[quote name='Socrates' post='1504412' date='Apr 20 2008, 10:30 PM']I think these problems are more those of "globalization" and free trade than specifically evils of America.
America has arguably suffered more than profitted from such globalization, with factories shutting down and manufacturing and tech jobs being lost to outsourcing and overseas competition. And China has certainly profitted at the loss of American manufacturing. (I see America's growing reliance on China for manufacturing labor to be a serious problem - for America).
While that is a whole debate in itself, my point is that you can't paint this as an issue of big bad America and Britain screwing over the rest of the world.[/quote] That isn't the picture I'm trying to paint. My point is -in a nutshell- that the richer nations on earth have caused/are causing poorer nations to suffer unnecessarily, and that I am not proud of that. To an extent these are the effects of globalisation, but it's also greed and the pursuit of power. Going back to the OT, I wouldn't say we're great because we are richer. We can afford to cancel Third World Debt etc. but we don't. Our govts and pharmaceutical, weapons, and gas industries are just plain greedy, and they screw [i]us[/i] over let alone the rest of the world. But yes I agree it is a whole debate in itself.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1504412' date='Apr 20 2008, 10:30 PM']While you may complain about problems for Ghanan farmers, what about the countries around the world whom America helps feed? And is it the fault of the US and UK that they have better job opportunities?.[/quote]

I used the example of Ghanaian farmers because I've seen it directly- there are better examples I'm sure. My Mother in law has been providing for many families back in Ghana, putting kids through education etc, on a meagre UK nurses' wages, sacrificing her own comforts here, living crammed in a council estate (housing projects/ghetto?). She is obviously grateful for the opportunity to work, but not so happy that her family in Ghana was put out of a livelihood. And the US did send food aid to Ghana. It was in the form of genetically modified rice not allowed for human consumption, adding insult to injury.

I wouldn't say the job opportunities are better, the money just goes further in the West because of its greater power. Most immigrants I know had more professional jobs back home, but earn more cleaning train stations over here. People come here thinking it's going to be a dream, but realise that most US and UK citizens struggle to put food on the table. We have less time to see our kids with most couples working full-time. I may not know much about politics, but I know that the Uk national budget is getting wasted on policies noone supports.

[quote name='Socrates' post='1504412' date='Apr 20 2008, 10:30 PM']My point wasn't that everything's great and wonderful morally in America (it's not), but to counterbalance all the negativity about America by pointing out some positive things Americans are doing in this area.[/quote] I agree that the American people do a lot of good for the rest of the world. Many people have been given refuge from war torn, oppressed, and poverty stricken countries, and opportunities to make a better life, and freedom to practice their religion. I was proud to be American and I am proud to be British now.

[CatholicMax]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1503952' date='Apr 20 2008, 05:23 AM']But that isn't always the case. I just read the other day that the West End of Louisville (which would be where most of the run down "ghetto" neighborhoods are) has the lowest level of car ownership anywhere in the city, so apparently many people can't afford a car at all. Same is probably true in just about every city in the country. Some of the people living in those neighborhoods actually do have good jobs, but I'm sure like the rest of America, they're in debt to their eyeballs. If we call out black people for buying Escalades, how about calling out white people for buying humongous houses? We're all living above our means; only difference is the poison we choose.[/quote]
Not my problem. if people decide to live above their means and put themselves in debt by buying things that they cant afford its not my problem. Its called personal responsibility. I have never lived above my means what i make is what i live on, I have no credit cards and don't buy what i cant pay for in cash. It took me 3 years to afford to buy an Ipod which i still have and take good care of. I have never lived from check to check and as an adult i have never made more than $20,000 (if that) a year.

[quote]There are also many other variables to consider. The poor generally don't know how to manage money, so they're even more likely to fall into the debt trap. They also lack the connections in the business and professional community that are vitally important to establishing their own careers. They suffer from broken families, so kids tend not to care about education and their future. So for your own sake, remember that God will judge us by the measure we use to judge others. I hope you don't presume to be so holy that you can roll those dice (er, no pun intended).[/quote] Oh please i want to rip my hair out every time i hear "judge not". no one is presuming to be "so holy" what we are presuming is that people need to take personal responsibility. Managing money does not take a PhD or even a GED it takes common sense, dont spend beyond our means. I come from a broken home so please dont feed me that line either. If you really wanna help these people do away with public schools which are keeping these people dumb, If IF the government must pay for education lets have school vouchers.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1507517' date='Apr 23 2008, 06:28 PM']Managing money does not take a PhD or even a GED it takes common sense, dont spend beyond our means. I come from a broken home so please dont feed me that line either. If you really wanna help these people do away with public schools which are keeping these people dumb, If IF the government must pay for education lets have school vouchers.[/quote]
I'm suddenly reminded of [url="http://consumerist.com/consumer/clips/snl-skit-dont-buy-stuff-you-cant-afford-252491.php"]this skit from SNL[/url].

I will comment that not all public schools are bad. It varies so much from district to district, and even within districts. So that's a rather sweeping statement to make concerning abolishing public education. Though I do agree that a lot of public education needs to be reformed somehow.