Is America The Greatest Nation On Earth?

[Lena]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1497720' date='Apr 12 2008, 01:14 AM']I am so sick of people using abortion to point out how America is not the greatest country in the world. Firstly no Mexico is actually not more religious than America and there is good argument its not even as Catholic as America(liberation theology is not Catholic). When you look at the number of people who actually attend cult services America beats out Mexico with ease and with exception of Africa and India(arguably) we beat out the rest of the world as well. do you see what people who are trying to argue America is not the greatest country are doing? They narrow it down to a single issue. that is as bad as a single issue voter it shows no intelligence.

now as to you Diary girl are you seriously going ot say that other countries are freer than America? especially Europe. your joking right? the PC socialists have Europe especially northern europe on lock down. France, Britain, the Netherlands's, Germany. Heck in Germany if you home school your kid you are arrested. you dont have freedom of Speech in one European country. you dont have the right to bare arms. you don't have half the rights that we Americans do. not only that but in Europe and Mexico, Canada and other places the government steals half your check. here at least they only steal 26%

the reason its not obvious is because you choose to be blind to reality. I have an idea for you if America is not the best. and I am going to say this to EVERYONE who does not think America is the best country. Get out. that is right leave. find a or the better country and go live there.
THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WE ARE THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SEEK YEARLY TO COME TO THIS GREAT LAND WHICH WAS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR WITH THE BLOOD OF PEOPLE WHO LOVE HER AND EVERYTHING SHE STANDS FOR. GOD BLESS AMERICA THE GREATEST DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, NO THE GREATEST COUNTRY, THE GREATEST IDEA THAT MAN HAS EVER KNOWN. [b]AND IF YOU DONT AGREE GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.[/b]

And i say that with as much charity as possible. There are three things you must never insult. The honor of my Mother(my earthly mother), the honor of my country(philosophical and political mother), and the Honor of the Church(my spiritual mother).

If you insult my Mother prepare to be on the reception of a very long beating.[/quote]

I'm all for patriotism....but you're bordering on some crazy jingoistic tantrum.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Lena

[Era Might]

There is no "greatest" nation on earth. Everyone loves their own country. It is a matter of subjective attachment.

The United States does have many temporal superiorities (e.g., power and wealth). But those things will pass away, just as they have for every other historical world power. And when those things do pass away, America will still be loved by its people, just as the citizens of other nations love their countries regardless of their temporal status.

We have here no lasting city (Hebrews 13:14). The measure of greatness is not power and wealth, but love of God and love of neighbor. Other nations may not have power and wealth, but they have something more precious in God's eyes: the poor and suffering. Why would someone love their country even when it is filled with poverty and violence? Because those are their people who are poor and suffering, who share their culture and their history. Why would Americans love their country even when many Americans have turned their backs on God? Because those are their people, whom they love and seek to convert to God.

You can be proud of your country. But be proud of your country for its own sake, and not because of how it compares to other nations. Just as you love your mother for her own sake, and not because of how she compares to other mothers. Everyone thinks their mother is the best cook.

[CatholicMax]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1497729' date='Apr 12 2008, 12:25 AM']Who was it, Churchill who said democracy is the lousiest form of government ever invented... except for all the other forms.

It has the ring of truth. I guess you could say that America is the worst country in the world, except for all the other ones.[/quote]
LOL

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1497738' date='Apr 12 2008, 12:36 AM']i wasn't referring to france etc but to netherlands belgium sweden etc. as per freer.
countries like france etc are not socialist btw, even if they have things like nationalized health care. they just have socialist tendencies. they do not consider themselves socialist.[/quote]
you can call a duck a cow for all i care its still the same thing. and you dont have socialist tendencies you either are or your not, politics is like religion.


[quote]there's surely countries who's got america beat in terms of religion.
i don't like pointing to abortion only. but i'm not pointing to it only. plus, you have to concede it's a point that has america lost on. it has significantly more aboritons than other countries per capita. look at my past threads.[/quote]I want to see your stats on that. and even if that is true it doesnt matter because what you would be neglecting is that the reason we have a higher abortion rate is because we also have a higher birth rate(or an other words more people get pregnant).

[quote]there's other countires that has america lost on in terms of morality surely[/quote] baring abortion can you tell me which ones they are(first world)? and why? dont just make the assertions is it the ones that the governments say its okay for them to steel(redistribute) money that doesn't belong to the? because if we are comparing mortal sins Northern Europe has us beat.

[quote]now, the poor are probably better off here generally than many. i might assume it's than any other country, but i think i'd be wrong. and even if i wasn't wrong, that alone is not what makes a country the best. material wealth is towards the bottom of what makes a country great.
here is this which says our poor are not the best off, and that i'd be wrong to assume the poor here have it best off....[/quote] Tell me one other country where the poor have it as good? your using blind rhetoric and not saying "in X country the poor have it better because...", Materially, but as i said there are not many who are truly poor here in the US. also you are only looking at the cash income and ignoring how many people get welfare. you are also ignoring how many of the poor simply dont look for jobs. also i want to know where you go those numbers

[quote](it akes sense too... if the US rich are richer than everyone else how could that be if all factors are the same? the poor have less the rich have more. if europe became more capitalist, that'd happen there too, theoretically anyway)[/quote]yes that is logical if your poor you have less than someone who is rich. however that is irrelevant. Those who work hard in America and save can get out of poverty. this is why immigrants who come here with nothing become wealthy fast. It is misleading to say that "in this country people make X and in other countries people make Y" remember that in Europe gas costs $7-$9 and here it costs half that. things in Europe are more expensive the real question is after compensation how much do people make in Europe? Given that things in Europe cost two to three times as much as things here in the states it would make sense. and by the way your not seriouly going to say germany is better? the place you get arrested for homeschooling your kids?


[quote]plus all this hogwash about liberals making the US bad. maybe pure social liberals, but get a brain and realize that pure capitalism, if it allows things like people not beinga ble to afford a basic surgery bc of laissez faire capitalism is not moral, accoding to the popes. also, it's at least conceivable that a reasonable person would think helping the disenfranchised without becoming socialist is at least something that makes the country better.
people spend too much time thinking how they are told to think.[/quote]
This is your mistake, and this is the mistake of all liberalism, its pure utopianism. Here is the Difference between the way a Socialist and a Capitalist look at poverty.
Socialist: we can end Poverty by making everyone have the same income.
Capitalist: We cannot end Poverty there will be poverty until the end of the world. However we should do work to ease the suffering of the poor.

Which is more inline with Jesus?

Also one other question which system allows more people to get out of poverty? that is right the free market. and why? because it values ones contribution to the whole. Liberals don't understand that if one works hard then they are rewarded. read atlas shrugged.
[quote]so... what's one thing hat makes the US better?
maybe on balance it's better,,, but no one's really given a godo explanation of how, other than by shooting off typical rhetoric about how it's rich and free. i'm putting econ data out there, abortion data etc. common sense stuff aout morality. what more do you want? no one else is doing any better from the other direction.[/quote]

That is right and look at who is causing the moral degeneration of the society is it those who support free market or those who support Socialism? that is right its the socialists, the left. so yes liberals are ruining America.

[rachael]

[quote name='Deb' post='1496738' date='Apr 10 2008, 09:31 PM']Only in our own minds.[/quote]
Amen sister.

[Socrates]

There's a lot of talk here about America's abortion rates. I definitely do not take pride in America's abortion rate - indeed I regard it as a national disgrace, and firmly believe abortion should be outlawed.
However, America was not founded on "abortion rights," and abortion was banned by state laws for much of America's history. It was not until 1973 that the SCOTUS gave us the judicial abomination that is Roe v. Wade. (And abortion was legal in other countries before America.)

Also, America has the strongest and most active pro-life movement in the word, and Americans are at the center of pro-life efforts worldwide (I know Fr. Eutneneur of Human Life International, which coordinates pro-life activity around the globe).
Americans are also having more babies than Europeans - Most of Europe is at well below replacement fertility rate, and much population growth is from immigration (mostly from Muslim countries). The falling fertility rate in Europe is a much-discussed problem, and will likely lead to serious economic problems in future, as there will not be enough younger people to care for the rapidly aging population.

Once, some years back, when I was talking to girl from France, she started talking about differences between the U.S. and Europe. One of the things she mentioned was the pro-life movement, and abortion battle. She said that in Europe, there was no pro-life movement, but most people just accepted the laws allowing abortion.
This is consistant with what I've heard and read elsewhere.
While America has a serious abortion problem, at least people here are fighting it. In Europe, the reaction is mostly complacency. They find the American political preoccupation with abortion odd.

I'd also seriously contest that European countries are more free than America - it is well acknowledged that most European countries are more socialist than America in their policies, with much more government regulation of private business, and higher taxes. And Sweden is one of the most socialistic countries in Western Europe - more so than France.
And I don't regard legalization of things like dope, prostitution, etc. as in themselves constituting more freedom in the true sense. Statist socialism can and does co-exist with moral degeneracy - in America as well as Europe.

The truth is that America faces many of the same threats to greatness and true freedom as Europe.
A godless nation cannot long remain great, or free.
More liberalism, socialism, and radical secularism is not the answer - and in these things lie the seeds of the West's own destruction.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1497038' date='Apr 11 2008, 08:26 AM']Are dreams not attainable elsewhere in the world? It's interesting that the world's richest man, Carlos Slim, is a Lebanese immigrant to Mexico. He's just one example, but suffice it to say, nearly every country has its share of entrepreneurs and most live under democractic governments that at least offer some freedoms and rights.

I'm proud that the United States is the model of democracy for the world, that we have the Bill of Rights, and the freedoms it provides. Still, part of our role as a leader is to recognize the good offered by other countries that come from different cultures and developed outside of Western history. Unfortunately, American public schools don't teach much about the history of non-Western civilizations, so few of us have any clue where non-white people are coming from (or even whites in the East, like Constantinople).[/quote]

Mexico is a corrupt nation where there is little opportunity for advancement or success. Why do you think so many Mexicans have come north? I have not said that dreams are not attainable elsewhere in the world only that they are more attainable here in the US.

I don't recall this thread being about other countries contributions. Sorry if I offended you by not recognizing good things from other countries.

I could start a whole other thread about the history that is not being taught in schools today but I won't. Just suffice it to say that not even American history is taught. Thus we are destined to repeat our mistakes.

[Deb]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1497720' date='Apr 12 2008, 01:14 AM']I am so sick of people using abortion to point out how America is not the greatest country in the world. Firstly no Mexico is actually not more religious than America and there is good argument its not even as Catholic as America(liberation theology is not Catholic). When you look at the number of people who actually attend cult services America beats out Mexico with ease and with exception of Africa and India(arguably) we beat out the rest of the world as well. do you see what people who are trying to argue America is not the greatest country are doing? They narrow it down to a single issue. that is as bad as a single issue voter it shows no intelligence.

now as to you Diary girl are you seriously going ot say that other countries are freer than America? especially Europe. your joking right? the PC socialists have Europe especially northern europe on lock down. France, Britain, the Netherlands's, Germany. Heck in Germany if you home school your kid you are arrested. you dont have freedom of Speech in one European country. you dont have the right to bare arms. you don't have half the rights that we Americans do. not only that but in Europe and Mexico, Canada and other places the government steals half your check. here at least they only steal 26%

the reason its not obvious is because you choose to be blind to reality. I have an idea for you if America is not the best. and I am going to say this to EVERYONE who does not think America is the best country. Get out. that is right leave. find a or the better country and go live there.



THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WE ARE THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SEEK YEARLY TO COME TO THIS GREAT LAND WHICH WAS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR WITH THE BLOOD OF PEOPLE WHO LOVE HER AND EVERYTHING SHE STANDS FOR. GOD BLESS AMERICA THE GREATEST DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, NO THE GREATEST COUNTRY, THE GREATEST IDEA THAT MAN HAS EVER KNOWN. [b]AND IF YOU DONT AGREE GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.[/b]

And i say that with as much charity as possible. There are three things you must never insult. The honor of my Mother(my earthly mother), the honor of my country(philosophical and political mother), and the Honor of the Church(my spiritual mother).

If you insult my Mother prepare to be on the reception of a very long beating.[/quote]


First, I would like to know what other countries you have spent time in that you could actually compare which is the "Best' country to live in? Second, what standards do you use to judge this and yes, where are your statistics.

I am a patriot, which means I love my country, that is not synonomous with loving or even liking my government or many things that go on in my country. Blind patriotism is dangerous.

[b]"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

herman goering; 1946 nuremberg trials.
[/b]

When it comes to your knowledge of poverty, regardless of whether or not you have ever been in it, I will be charitable when I say again, you are clueless. That is the nicest way I could refer to your lack of education on this subject.
There are 36 million people in this country that live below the poverty level. ($16,600 for a family of 4) Now, if you make $700 a month, you can't even rent a one bedroom apartment in the city I live near or its surroundings. Sure, you can live with someone but, that still won't giv you enough to live on.
There are 12 million children living in poverty and I really do not think they are responsible for that. I also think they aren't debating the reasons they only got one meal that day and sometimes none.
The people still living in shacks throughout the south and the west would probably disagree with you also.
Don't spout off your mouth with such certainty about things that can so easily be proven croutons. Can people rise above their born station in life? Yes, they can. Sometimes they need help, a lot of help and attitudes like yours doesn't help anyone.
Time to change your screen name.

Edited April 13, 2008 by Deb

[Mercy me]

How many of those below the poverty line are here legally?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1497334' date='Apr 11 2008, 05:24 PM']To move from Lebanon to Mexico is an improvement i dont deny that, my question however is is it the best improvement possible. no. how do we know this? because millions of Mexicans flee here to the united states, where as compared to American only 200,000 have left over our entire history.[/quote]

My point is simply that the United States is far from the only place in the world one can ascend from "rags to riches." Your sweeping statements about "the rest of the world" inaccurately paints hundreds of countries with one brush when there are many stable democracies with similar freedoms and rights that we have.

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1497334' date='Apr 11 2008, 05:24 PM']Not teach non western History? are you insane? I spent all of middle school and high school with the exception of 1 year learning about "world Civilization" there was so much about non western countries it was ridiculous, and when it did mention the west it was always in a bad light unless you were reading about the French revolution. we need more western Civ courses.

Saying that America is superior to the rest of the world does not mean we deny the good in other countries.[/quote]

Just curious, did you receive a public or private education? From K-12 of suburban 98% white public schooling, I can count on one hand the weeks spent studying non-Western history: a couple weeks on Asia, probably a couple on South America, and Africa was almost ignored completely. I'm sure some school systems are much more inclusive in their history material (and there is most likely a correlation to the racial makeup of students), but this is my experience.

All I'm really looking for is that we qualify statements like "America is superior to the rest of the world." We are superior in a few things, such as the human rights and freedoms upheld in our Constitution, but in most things (education, happiness, morality, corruption, crime) other countries easily excel above us.

Edited April 13, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[Deb]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1498668' date='Apr 13 2008, 06:16 PM']How many of those below the poverty line are here legally?[/quote]


The majority of them. Just as the majority of poor are white.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1496681' date='Apr 10 2008, 08:41 PM']here's some decent stats on the issue that seem to back it up.
[url="http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm"]http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm[/url][/quote]

Thanks for the stats, dairygirl. Unfortunately, too many people support abortion.

[Paladin D]

I'm absolutely a patriot, and I can't see myself living in any other country.

At the sametime, I don't think there is a single 'greatest' nation on this planet. Maybe a collection of great nations, but not a single nation that is great in everything.

[misereremi]

I agree with what Era said.

[quote name='BeenaBobba' post='1496613' date='Apr 10 2008, 11:52 PM']If you were to go to, say, England and shout your beliefs of American superiority from the rooftops, I highly doubt it'd go over well. And I highly doubt they'd agree! The funny thing is, many Europeans would be astounded by your views simply because they seem to be what many Europeans view as stereotypical (and unattractive) American cockiness.[/quote]
quite true. I heart the American people and I was an American citizen, so I do see both sides. I think the American government is just as rotten and LIBERAL as most of the West.

If greatness is equated with wealth, then I think there is the question of how is that wealth obtained. I've seen people suffering because of the West- like people in Ghana struggling to provide clean water and food for their kids because their livelihood (rice farming) was taken away from them by US agricultural subsidies- the profits go to a big rice company in Arkansas because people don't buy local anymore. Then you get people from Africa trying to emigrate to the US and UK to get jobs so that they can send money back home to help feed those people. In the UK we diss China a lot for its human rights abuses but we're quick to dump our waste there (among other things) and cause people there to suffer. It's convenient to ignore all these things because we the people aren't doing this directly, but they are there even when we change the channel. So yeah, fairplay to those who say we're great, but do we recognise at whose expense this is?

[quote name='Socrates' post='1498650' date='Apr 13 2008, 11:36 PM']Once, some years back, when I was talking to girl from France, she started talking about differences between the U.S. and Europe. One of the things she mentioned was the pro-life movement, and abortion battle. She said that in Europe, there was no pro-life movement, but most people just accepted the laws allowing abortion.[/quote]
I agree that in America the Pro-Life Movement is bigger and more vocal. I'm not sure if you meant political presence of pro-life MPs, or the presence of a pro-life movement (as in organisations)? Because if it is the latter, there are many pro-life movements in Europe. And by Europe I include the UK. In France I know of 'Laissez-les-Vivre', in Belgium there's Pro-Vita, I think in Denmark it's called Foroya Provita, in Italy we have a number of movements like MPV that are under attack by the socialists. There are many more. In the UK we have Life and SPUC, the Good Counsel Network. Our numbers may be smaller, but [b]we exist[/b]!

I think America is great because there are many God fearing people who live the faith, and aren't afraid to show it. I think England is a great nation....because it's the dowry of Our Lady. God bless.

[Deb]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1496987' date='Apr 11 2008, 02:00 AM']True there is real abject poverty here in America but it is not a "serious problem" (serious implying that it is wide spread). but even the people that live on the streets get three square meals a day, soup kitchens are open. I went literally from living on the street at 14 with nothing (literally) but the shirt on my back the pants on my waist and the shoes on my feet, to renting a 5 bedroom house at age 15. I was motivated I knew i needed a place to stay found some people my own age in a similar situation found someone who was 18, worked under the table, did side jobs. and went to school. I was able to bring home $2,000 a month from hard work and various jobs. the majority of people in America who are poor are poor because they choose to be, they are either 1, lazy, or 2. think its more important to buy video games and Nikes than to save that $60 or $150. so don't tell me poverty is a real problem in America because that is a line of croutons.[/quote]


St Francis used to say, "Whoever curses a poor man does an injury to Christ, whose noble image he wears, the image of him who made himself poor for us in this world" ([i]1 Celano, #76[/i]).

[Mercy me]

I know exactly what CatholicMax is saying. There is a stretch of road that I drive regularly where the houses are small and very run down. However, there are new Escalades parked out front. The car is worth more than the house! There are people who are poor here but generally they are not the ones crying poverty.

It is easier to be a victim than it is to be responsible. There is a difference between the poor who lack opportunity and those who [i]choose[/i] not to take the opportunities that they are given.