Is It My Business?

[Madame Vengier]

She sounds like a self-involved brat. Maybe its justified, maybe not. I don't know you or your wife so I can't say. But she IS 21 and if she wants freedom from you, then give it to her. Just let her go. At the very least she can learn a valuable lesson about how very difficult it is to fend for oneself in life with no one to cover for you or bail you out.

Let her go. Give her the freedom to make or break her own life. You have to do it some time, right? Why not now?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1496382' date='Apr 10 2008, 12:09 PM']+J.M.J.+
i agree with deb here. by you constantly seeking her and trying to be a part of her life, you are driving her further away.

and i want to be honest here with everyone. maybe there are legitimate reasons his daughter wants no part of her family. because his daughter doesn't post here, we don't know all the sides of the story. we are only getting one side.[/quote]


Yah, I totally agree. I have a friend who is one of 5 children of her parents (the kids are products of the dad's two marriages and one non-married relationship...so the 5 kids have 3 different mothers). Even though my friend had the most stable home life of the 5 kids, the parents have managed to offend and alienate ALL OF THE KIDS. How can that be?? Five kids who are all so different. But the one thing they have in common is a father and step-mothers who are worthless at parenting. And the parents BLAME the kids. Shocking. I know the family, so I know the kids are in the right on this. All I'm saying is yes...parents can alienate their kids, the kids react with anger and rebellion...and then the parents are the ones who look like the victim while the kids are the guilty ones. Society all too often automatically casts blame on the kids without knowing any details of the parents' behavior.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1497077' date='Apr 11 2008, 08:06 AM']All I'm saying is yes...parents can alienate their kids, the kids react with anger and rebellion...and then the parents are the ones who look like the victim while the kids are the guilty ones. Society all too often automatically casts blame on the kids without knowing any details of the parents' behavior.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
thanks, that's precisely what i was getting at.

[apparent]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1496382' date='Apr 10 2008, 02:09 PM']+J.M.J.+
i agree with deb here. by you constantly seeking her and trying to be a part of her life, you are driving her further away.

and i want to be honest here with everyone. maybe there are legitimate reasons his daughter wants no part of her family. because his daughter doesn't post here, we don't know all the sides of the story. we are only getting one side.[/quote]

All I can say is that my daughter was raised in catholic home in an honorably way. Her brothers are both well adjusted young men. We all lived clean wholesome lives, attended mass weekly and participated often in catholic community activities.
Letting go is not really the issue here. My immediate and extended family members have not conspired against this daughter who wants no part of her family. All are good people, all are my friends, and all pretend that nothing is amiss and avoid the subject of my child.
I can not pretend that she, my only daughter doesn't matter! I have to go with my gut. Lord god forgive me if I'm wrong.
Do parental rights end at 21?
Does the forth commandment say; Honor your father and your mother, until the age of 21

[Socrates]

While I'm not a family counselor, and I don't know the whole story, from what you say it sounds like your daughter is being a disgusting, disrespectful little brat.

There is such a thing as being over-nosey and over-involved, but there's nothing wrong with keeping in touch with your daughter to a certain degree. And her blatant disrespect is a direct contradiction to the Fourth Commandment.

Are you paying for your daughters college tuition, room and board, etc.? If so, you can tell her that if she's such a grown-up independent woman, she can pay her own way without your help, and refuse to continue paying for her education until she shows some basic respect. I know that may sound harsh, but I think it's a needed lesson. It is wrong that she should depend on her parents for support, yet treat them with total disrespect.
It is disgusting how many kids now think they're entitled to everything, yet owe nothing in return.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Socrates

[KnightofChrist]

Here is what may be a total different way of thinking. Somehow you need to learn how to play this game without losing. Perhaps, reel it back a little, asking too much can do great harm. You may have indeed said too much and because you are worried you have not notice. Be humble, play her game a little. Write her a short letter no more than one paragrah, simple and to the point.

Say something like honey your mother and I love you, and worry for you. We apologize for taking that worrying and concern too far. Just know that we love you, and if you would allow we would like to hear from you every couple weeks, or when you have time, and we will talk about whatever you want to talk about, if only to know that you are alive and ok, and to tell you we love you.

You got to keep in mind that its no longer a Adult Father, child daughter relationship, it is a Adult Father Adult Daughter relationship. You must treat her as an Adult, not as a kid. Or try your best. If you try to hard talk to her, such as calling her to much, or trying everyway in the world to get her to call, and then getting upset when she does not contact you back this will do nothing but make you seem overpowering, and push her away. Because it will confrim her false notion that you are the bad guy.

You should try backing down, playing it her way. It will be hard because at first she may say nope, no deal, but in that case leave her alone for a time, a month and write her again saying something similar in paragraph two of this post. Then conitue doing that every month or so until she writes back, but dont be "nosy" or get upset, or ask things that will only push her away just tell her something good about your day, or a day you had.

[apparent]

[quote]Posted by: praying4carmel Apr 10 2008, 12:30 PM

Sorry..it got screwey there for a minute and I got a Flood control warning..[/quote]
What is "got a Flood control warning"



[quote]Posted by: Socrates Apr 11 2008, 09:32 PM

While I'm not a family counselor, and I don't know the whole story, from what you say it sounds like your daughter is a disgusting, disrespectful little brat.[/quote]
Please don't think unkindly of her, dispite my displeasure such thoughts are offensive to me.



[quote]Posted by: KnightofChrist Apr 12 2008, 1:09 AM

Here is what may be a total different way of thinking. Somehow you need to learn how to play this game without losing.[/quote]

This is no game. I've tried your approach to no avail.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1496382' date='Apr 10 2008, 02:09 PM']+J.M.J.+
i agree with deb here. by you constantly seeking her and trying to be a part of her life, you are driving her further away.

and i want to be honest here with everyone. maybe there are legitimate reasons his daughter wants no part of her family. because his daughter doesn't post here, we don't know all the sides of the story. we are only getting one side.[/quote]


I absolutely agree. 100%. I think it would be wise to remember (everyone) that we only have one side of the story here. Maybe the daughter believes she has very good reason for wanting this independence. Perhaps mom and dad should respect daughter's wishes for a time and give her space. In time she might come to desire a reunion and rebuild the relationship of her own accord. Pushing where there is so much resistance just seems like a futile exercise to me.

[rachael]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1496382' date='Apr 10 2008, 01:09 PM']+J.M.J.+
i agree with deb here. by you constantly seeking her and trying to be a part of her life, you are driving her further away.

and i want to be honest here with everyone. maybe there are legitimate reasons his daughter wants no part of her family. because his daughter doesn't post here, we don't know all the sides of the story. we are only getting one side.[/quote]
I agree.

But I gotta say, as a 21 year old...all I want is true independence from my parents in every way...I would love to be able to do everything on my own, no matter what it takes.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='rachael' post='1498497' date='Apr 13 2008, 12:02 PM']I agree.

But I gotta say, as a 21 year old...all I want is true independence from my parents in every way...I would love to be able to do everything on my own, no matter what it takes.[/quote]


Good for you, Rachel. At the risk of sounding old-fashioned (I'm not old but I am old-fashioned sometimes) there used to be an era not long ago when 21 year olds were quite mature, quite grown-up. In some cases a 21 year old woman was already married with at least one child (maybe--but at least married) or if not she was putting herself through college and if not that then she was working to help her family (not the other way around like it is today--young people rarely have to lift a finger to do jack for their families). Both men and women of this age were thinking of their futures and what direction they wanted their lives to go. They accepted big responsibilities even when it crimped their own lifetsyle. They were more serious-minded, more mature. Not that they weren't just as youthful and idealistic as 21 year olds today. But we have lost a sense of maturity that so desperately needs to be recovered.

Nowadays parents do EVERYTHING for their kids...very often right up until their kids marry! My boss has a 26 year daughter and she literally does everything for her daughter. Everything. She keeps track of her health insurance, car insurance, tells her how to go about paying for her condo, files her taxes for her, tracks her bills for her (including cell phone), helps her making shopping decisions (can't buy a gift for her own boyfriend without running it by mom first). The daughter only has to pick up the phone and tell her mom what she needs ("I need to switch cell phone packages", for example) and her mom will see to it. Granted, the mother loves her daughter and she loves doing these things. Just loves it too much, I think. She even orders her daughter's airline tickets for her when she needs to travel. She finds the best deals for the destination and then makes the purchase and then tell her daughter what she owes her. It's just so shocking to me. At 26 years old she doesn't have to run anything in her own life. It is completely uncalled for. But I believe this is par for the course in American families.

I applaud you for not only accepting maturity and independence, but demanding it.

[rachael]

Well, I am not saying I have full independence yet. Because I definitely don't. As long as my parents are paying for some of my bills, I am not going to. I believe things are (hopefully) going to change when I graduate from college. One more year...

I am ready to be thrown into a grown-up world and to be shocked by what I see. I [i]need[/i] to get a full-time job. I [i]need[/i] to pay my own bills. I need to do things on my own. Actually, I don't just need to, I [b]desire[/b] to. It's this desire that's making me go a little crazy.

One of the best pieces of advice my mother has given me thus far is this: "Rachael, do me a favor and live on your own for a while before you get married. You will appreciate the fact that you did."

Edited April 13, 2008 by rachael

[Lena]

[quote name='rachael' post='1498611' date='Apr 13 2008, 04:45 PM']Well, I am not saying I have full independence yet. Because I definitely don't. As long as my parents are paying for some of my bills, I am not going to. I believe things are (hopefully) going to change when I graduate from college. One more year...

I am ready to be thrown into a grown-up world and to be shocked by what I see. I [i]need[/i] to get a full-time job. I [i]need[/i] to pay my own bills. I need to do things on my own. Actually, I don't just need to, I [b]desire[/b] to. It's this desire that's making me go a little crazy.

One of the best pieces of advice my mother has given me thus far is this: "Rachael, do me a favor and live on your own for a while before you get married. You will appreciate the fact that you did."[/quote]

I feel the same way, I don't like being dependent on others. Even though I do work, I still can't afford my life (school, rent) at this point without my parents help.

[Socrates]

[quote name='apparent' post='1498433' date='Apr 13 2008, 06:53 AM']Please don't think unkindly of her, dispite my displeasure such thoughts are offensive to me.[/quote]
Sorry - I should have said specifically her behavior in regard to her parents is disgusting and disrespectful, at least as you have reported it here.


You are perfectly within your rights to discontinue paying for her college education.
It is wrong that she should be living off your resources while at the same time refusing to have anything to do with you. Perhaps some time spent on her own in the "real world" without daddy's money to bail her out will teach her some lessons.
I am disgusted by the "entitlement" mentality by which people think they are entitled to support from others without giving anything, not even basic respect, in return. Maybe it's time she learn the real meaning of total independence.

Edited April 13, 2008 by Socrates

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1498607' date='Apr 13 2008, 09:12 PM']My boss has a 26 year daughter and she literally does everything for her daughter. Everything. She keeps track of her health insurance, car insurance, tells her how to go about paying for her condo, files her taxes for her, tracks her bills for her (including cell phone), helps her making shopping decisions (can't buy a gift for her own boyfriend without running it by mom first). The daughter only has to pick up the phone and tell her mom what she needs ("I need to switch cell phone packages", for example) and her mom will see to it. Granted, the mother loves her daughter and she loves doing these things. Just loves it too much, I think. She even orders her daughter's airline tickets for her when she needs to travel. She finds the best deals for the destination and then makes the purchase and then tell her daughter what she owes her. It's just so shocking to me. At 26 years old she doesn't have to run anything in her own life. It is completely uncalled for. But I believe this is par for the course in American families.[/quote]
That would absolutely drive me nuts. Ironically, though, that is how it's been with my older sister for a while. I rebelled against that, pretty much, as I love my independence and always have. While my parents helped me out to finish college, I was responsible for credit cards, cell phone, car payment, car insurance, etc and did pay some of the college expenses. When I graduated, I moved back in with them for a bit (until getting married shortly thereafter), but still paid for my own things pretty much and had a job and everything. I wanted the responsibility of paying my own bills, filing my own taxes, etc. I know my parents still helped quite a bit, but I felt I was being irresponsible if I didn't take on the majority of these tasks for myself.

[rachael]

[quote name='Lena' post='1498616' date='Apr 13 2008, 04:57 PM']I feel the same way, I don't like being dependent on others. Even though I do work, I still can't afford my life (school, rent) at this point without my parents help.[/quote]
Me neither, and it's very...I don't know...unsettling.