Medjugorje Hoax

[Galloglasses]

Well fair enough, now that the arguement has levelled off i'll try not to temper matters in this reply. Like Domincansoul said, I have no real need to believe in Medjugorje, many pentacostals and many athiests are brought to know Christ through protestantism but that doesn't neccesarily mean Protestantism is correct, many would say the same about Catholicism in general.

I am cautious and very worried about this because of the ambiguoities of it, (the journal entry I posted earlier being one of my main concerns and the divisions it seems to be causes, as goldenchild pointed out, i'm worried that this good may be a means to an end), I just want others to exercise extreme caution over the matter, specially because it could be like Magdalen of the Cross. Not to mention the Church is habitully sceptical of miracles and those who perform throughout history, (some Saints taking centuries to be canonised for example), my reasons are very similar to goldenchild's except I am not sedevacantist and I accept the authority of the Church wholly in such matters. I just want others to be cautious because I fear that medjugorje could be adisastorous tradegy. (What could be worse then thousands, millions, of people thinking they've found God, be shocked by some unholy revelation and begin to doubt?)

Keep in mind I am not saying that the miracles have not happened nor am I ignoring the conversions that have taken place, but like I said, i'm afraid that this could be a means towards an end, hence, my cautiousness about the place.

[Deb]

There is nothing wrong with being cautious.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I take the cautious approach myself. If somebody offered me five hundred pounds to go on pilgrimage somewhere, I would head to Lourdes or Walsingham. These are the only apparitions to which I have any devotion. I don't feel as though I need others. I am curious about Medjugorje and perhaps I will visit it one day, but if I do it probably won't be as a pilgrim.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Deb' post='1496214' date='Apr 10 2008, 06:50 AM']I do understand some of what you are saying but, I don't understand how you could not see this as being of the faith and the church. If tomorrow all the visionaries came out and said, sorry, we lied about everything, that would not make my conversion any less valid or my faith any weaker or my belief in the Catholic Church disappear.

These are fruits that could never come from an evil tree. I would never have believed that God could fill my life so completely. Would this conversion have eventually come to me at home? I don't know, I may have taken my own life before that happened. I know where I was when all my signs came, when the Lord came to me and when my heart softened and my eyes opened. From personal experience, I know that the only feelings one gets while in Medjugorje is the power of love and incredible peace.

I was baptized in the Holy Spirit once I was at home and threw my conversion into high gear but the beginning was Medjugorje. Having been there twice I can only say that it feels right in my heart and my soul.[/quote]

I believe the conversions to the Novus Ordo catholic church are valid. I believe these could definitely be very real. But I am technically considered a schismatic. I don't believe the Novus Ordo church (meaning anything and everything that came with and after Vatican II, is Catholic. So yes, I do believe these are very sincere, real conversions, but not to the Catholic Church. But that's a whole different animal to deal with. I believe, even if there were no conversions to consider at all, that the other signs are enough to discredit it. But again, that's just where I'm coming from, and I totally can see where you're at as well.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1496499' date='Apr 10 2008, 02:20 PM']I take the cautious approach myself. If somebody offered me five hundred pounds to go on pilgrimage somewhere, I would head to Lourdes or Walsingham. These are the only apparitions to which I have any devotion. I don't feel as though I need others. I am curious about Medjugorje and perhaps I will visit it one day, but if I do it probably won't be as a pilgrim.[/quote]

I don't think I'm familiar with Walsingham. Care to share? thanks.

[Tinkerlina]

Hi!
Link has been removed but thought I'd add my two cents on Medjugorje in general. I of course submit to the Church's final decision but at this point I wholeheartedly believe the apparitions are of God. I have read extensively about Medjugorje and have seen one of the visionaries, Ivan, speak about his experience-during the presentation he had his daily apparition and, for what it's worth, there was a definite palpable feeling which I took to be the Holy Spirit. Regarding what was said about Jesus preferring that we address ourselves to Him; I do not believe this was meant to discourage prayers to Mary and the Saints...but rather that we should consider these prayers [i]auxiliary [/i]to our petitions to Jesus which is perfectly in line with Church teaching. It has also impressed me that through the years, the visionaries have led rather humble and quiet lives and none seem to have profited financially, which they easily could have done. (Yes, I know their travel expenses are paid when they travel to speak about the Apparitions but I don't consider that profit...). From what I've seen, the fruits are definitely good and for me personally, the Apparitions have greatly helped my faith and encouraged me to become closer to God.

[Deb]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1496559' date='Apr 10 2008, 04:39 PM']I don't think I'm familiar with Walsingham. Care to share? thanks.[/quote]


[url="http://www.walsingham.org.uk/romancatholic/index.html"]http://www.walsingham.org.uk/romancatholic/index.html[/url]

This doesn't really interest me much. I think my next trip will be to the Holy Lands. Jeff Cavins is heading one up for 2009. Have to think quickly as his pilgrimages fill up so fast.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1496559' date='Apr 10 2008, 10:39 PM']I don't think I'm familiar with Walsingham. Care to share? thanks.[/quote]

Walsingham is a little village in the middle of Norfolk, England. It became a place of pilgrimage in 1061, when a noblewoman called Richeldis de Faverches experienced a vision of Our Lady and the Child Jesus in Nazareth. She had a replica of the Nazareth house built in a field on her property, and it quickly became a place of pilgrimage to rival the Holy Land and Compostela. During the Reformation it was razed to the ground, and the statue of Our Lady was burned. It was not rebuilt until the 1930s, although devotion to Our Lady of Walsingham never left England completely.

The shrine is particularly associated with conversion and healing. It is customary to pray to Our Lady of Walsingham for the conversion of England.

I appreciate the shrine because it is so quiet and undisturbed. Lourdes and Fatima have been hit by the tourist trade in a big way, and that has never happened with Walsingham. It's quite tricky to reach (public transport links in rural East Anglia aren't too good) so that might explain it.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Deb' post='1497157' date='Apr 11 2008, 05:54 PM'][url="http://www.walsingham.org.uk/romancatholic/index.html"]http://www.walsingham.org.uk/romancatholic/index.html[/url]

This doesn't really interest me much. I think my next trip will be to the Holy Lands. Jeff Cavins is heading one up for 2009. Have to think quickly as his pilgrimages fill up so fast.[/quote]

I went to the Holy Land for Christmas 2006. For me, the best parts of the trip involved praying by the Sea of Galilee and visiting Nazareth. If possible, I would recommend that you go in a small group - big, organised pilgrimages may mean that you miss the chance to do the little things that I appreciated so much, such as choosing to spend two hours praying inside the tomb believed to be that of Joseph of Arimathea. It is a rough hewn cavity in the rock, a few steps away from the Holy Sepulchre (you can't pray for long in there as there is usually a queue of people waiting to get in). If I had had a guide hustling me on I would not have been able to have that.

[Kenyi]

I doubt bishops because they are freemasons. That is why we have crisis in our Church. If freemason bishop could claim medjurgoje is real.

7 minutes ago, Kenyi said:

I doubt bishops because they are freemasons. That is why we have crisis in our Church. If Freemason bishop could claim medjurgoje is real. Then, Freemason could lead Catholics to Hell. Just saying.

 

Medjurgoje is hoax.

[Kenyi]

31 minutes ago, Kenyi said:

I doubt bishops because they are freemasons. That is why we have crisis in our Church. If freemason bishop could claim medjurgoje is real. Then, Freemason bishop could lead Catholics to Hell. Just saying.

 

Medjurgoje is hoax.