Referring To God In The Feminine

[Lena]

How does the Church feel about this? I can only think of a few examples, but I'm sure there are more. I know Julian of Norwich referred to God as "she," maybe not explicitly, but as a Mother. Also, the "Saginaw Blessing" (a prayer that my diocese's late Bishop had installed) referred directly to God as "she." However, our recent Bishop abolished the usage of "she" on grounds of clarity or something.

So, what does the Church say about this? I mean, I realize it's "God the Father" but really God isn't a gender. Is it for clarity, or do we do it because it's part of our tradition to refer to God in masculine terms?

[Galloglasses]

The Church is quite against this.

God is the Father because Jesus called Him as such, its true He is neither Male nor Female, He is likened to a Father because, most likely, He ACTS like a Father, its probably His nature.

The Church is heartedly against feminine terms, not for chuvanistic reasons, mostly because of the infiltration of feminine theology into the Church, the Church is trying to stem the tide. (Trust me, Feminist Theology is the epitome of heresy)

[cathoholic_anonymous]

The Church doesn't oppose the example that Lena gave - Julian of Norwich's reference to Christ as our mother. Julian used the image of the mother feeding her baby as a metaphor for Christ's intimate and nourishing l o v e for humanity, without which we couldn't survive. She was using it as an analogy, not specifying it as an attribute of God. It's not the same as standing up and praying, "We believe in one God, the Mother, the Almighty...," which is wrong.

As Julian was writing as an anchoress in medieval England, it would also be difficult to write her off as a feminist theologian.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[Galloglasses]

Point, but I wasn't referring to St.Julian

[Lena]

Interesting points....I'm not advocating anything here, I was just wondering if there was an official stance on this.

[Galloglasses]

I'm not sure, but the wind from Rome after the Baptism scandals, ("I baptise you in the name of the creater, the redeemer and the liberator"), suggest that its a no go. Your new bishop probably abolished that prayer for roughly the same reasons, but i'm no authority.

[Adrestia]

Here's an argument that I heard several years ago. I'd like to see what y'all think of it.

"From a biblical standpoint God is both. He (God) made Adam in His (God's) likeness. He (God) then took from Adam to create Eve, implying that God is both. There are other references in Jewish scripture that relate female characteristics to God. In that sense there is nothing wrong with thinking of God as both mother and father, however we should not use this as an excuse to contradict the Church."

so... thoughts?

[CatherineM]

I've never had problems with thinking of God the Father as a nurturer. My father was the main nurturer in our home, so that probably made a big difference in my perceptions.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lena' post='1494193' date='Apr 7 2008, 11:18 AM']How does the Church feel about this? I can only think of a few examples, but I'm sure there are more. I know Julian of Norwich referred to God as "she," maybe not explicitly, but as a Mother. Also, the "Saginaw Blessing" (a prayer that my diocese's late Bishop had installed) referred directly to God as "she." However, our recent Bishop abolished the usage of "she" on grounds of clarity or something.

So, what does the Church say about this? I mean, I realize it's "God the Father" but really God isn't a gender. Is it for clarity, or do we do it because it's part of our tradition to refer to God in masculine terms?[/quote]
If my memory serves me Julian does not refer to [i]God[/i] in feminine terms; instead, she refers to [i]Christ[/i] as our Mother. The former would be theologically problematic, while the latter – as an extension of ecclesiology – is in certain circumstances acceptable.

[Deb]

Just about every passage in the OT refers to him as God the Father and the prophets who spoke for him do the same so I assume that is how God wishes to be addressed.

[Lena]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1495982' date='Apr 9 2008, 09:38 PM']Here's an argument that I heard several years ago. I'd like to see what y'all think of it.

"From a biblical standpoint God is both. He (God) made Adam in His (God's) likeness. He (God) then took from Adam to create Eve, implying that God is both. There are other references in Jewish scripture that relate female characteristics to God. In that sense there is nothing wrong with thinking of God as both mother and father, however we should not use this as an excuse to contradict the Church."

so... thoughts?[/quote]

that's a good point.

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1496205' date='Apr 10 2008, 07:35 AM']If my memory serves me Julian does not refer to [i]God[/i] in feminine terms; instead, she refers to [i]Christ[/i] as our Mother. The former would be theologically problematic, while the latter – as an extension of ecclesiology – is in certain circumstances acceptable.[/quote]

[url="http://www.gloriana.nu/mother.htm"]Julian[/url]

quotes on it. I'll copy some here:

"To motherhood as properties belong natural love, wisdom and knowledge - and this is God. For though it is true that our bodily bringing forth is very little, low, and simple compared to our spiritual bringing forth, yet it is he who does the mothering in the creatures by whom it is done."

Like CA said, it's used as an analogy a lot, like the traditional feminine virtues being associated with God.

[Lena]

[quote name='Deb' post='1496210' date='Apr 10 2008, 07:43 AM']Just about every passage in the OT refers to him as God the Father and the prophets who spoke for him do the same so I assume that is how God wishes to be addressed.[/quote]

that's what I was wondering, if it's done because tradition had supplied us with how to address God, the way Jesus did.

[Deb]

I think it is more than just tradition. If you read the words of Moses or any of the other prophets, when they speak God's words, they refer to him as the father. God would have corrected them if that was not what he wanted so I can only assume it is from God.

[Guest aquinasavio]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1495982' date='Apr 9 2008, 07:38 PM']Here's an argument that I heard several years ago. I'd like to see what y'all think of it.

"From a biblical standpoint God is both. He (God) made Adam in His (God's) likeness. He (God) then took from Adam to create Eve, implying that God is both. There are other references in Jewish scripture that relate female characteristics to God. In that sense there is nothing wrong with thinking of God as both mother and father, however we should not use this as an excuse to contradict the Church."

so... thoughts?[/quote]
I wouldn't say that God has feminine characteristics...I would say that females have characteristics like God's. I don't think it would be incorrect to say that men and women represent different aspects of God's nature. Men typically represent His authority and strength. Women typically represent His understanding and care. That's not to say that men cannot be wise and understanding, and women cannot have authority and strength. Indeed, men and women are called to imitate God in all virtue. But some characteristics are (typically) naturally in one gender and not in the other. So...I don't think anyone should refer to God as feminine. Masculinity and femininity were taken from His nature, not the other way around. Just like the family represents the Trinity...the Trinity doesn't represent a family. I hope I'm making sense.

Also, I do not think of God as both a Father and Mother, because Christ already gave us His own mother on the cross. She is the Queen of Heaven and Earth, and we flee to her maternal arms in our trials.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Lena' post='1496224' date='Apr 10 2008, 06:04 AM']that's a good point.
[url="http://www.gloriana.nu/mother.htm"]Julian[/url]

quotes on it. I'll copy some here:

"To motherhood as properties belong natural love, wisdom and knowledge - and this is God. For though it is true that our bodily bringing forth is very little, low, and simple compared to our spiritual bringing forth, yet it is he who does the mothering in the creatures by whom it is done."

Like CA said, it's used as an analogy a lot, like the traditional feminine virtues being associated with God.[/quote]
I don't have time at the moment to look through the text linked above, but I have two different translations of her Divine Showings (and wrote a paper on her theology some years ago), and I will go through them when I have a chance. But one thing needs to be noted from the outset, and that is that the "deep wisdom of God" is the Son / Logos, not the Father, and not the Holy Spirit. In fact, as I pointed out in another thread, the [i]Hagia Sophia[/i] is Christ, not the Father or the Holy Spirit.

Thus, God is our Father, Christ is our Mother, and the Holy Spirit is the indwelling love that unites us to the Holy Trinity.

Edited April 10, 2008 by Apotheoun