What To Look For In A Cloistered Monastery?

[Saint Therese]

I've been pondering this question for some time. Any ideas?

[Totus Tuus]

Faithful to the norms of [i]Verbi Sponsa[/i]. Read it and you'll have the definition of a "healthy" community, I guarantee it.

[alicemary]

there are so many different monasteries out there, and each seems to live a very different type of life. To me, I need to see real JOY there. A joy that radiates from the faces of the nuns. A joy that starts with time spent with the Lord and radiates to ones sisters. A place that practices real charity to each sister and where harmony can be felt even by visitors. A community that allows for some personal decisions to be made in conjunction with a superior. Above all you must feel at home there. When you walk in the door, you know you have arrived. A place that when you walk into the chapel/choir, you know that Jesus is present.
If I were going to spend the rest of my natural life there I want to feel that I can fit in with the community. The best way is to make an aspirancy of several weeks. Some people have skipped that and found out later they didn't belong there. Take time before entering to feel out a place. Correspondance is nice, but you cant tell unless you live the life. If a place doesn't allow live in's then I would run for the hills. I am not interested.
I know such a place, and though I cannot enter there, my heart I left behind. Believe me when you have found the right place, it will come to you. It is tangible, very real indeed.
And above all, when you pray with your future sisters, you feel a bond.
Good luck in your search.
Alicemary

[irishdancer]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1493591' date='Apr 6 2008, 01:14 PM']there are so many different monasteries out there, and each seems to live a very different type of life. To me, I need to see real JOY there. A joy that radiates from the faces of the nuns. A joy that starts with time spent with the Lord and radiates to ones sisters. A place that practices real charity to each sister and where harmony can be felt even by visitors. A community that allows for some personal decisions to be made in conjunction with a superior. Above all you must feel at home there. When you walk in the door, you know you have arrived. A place that when you walk into the chapel/choir, you know that Jesus is present.
If I were going to spend the rest of my natural life there I want to feel that I can fit in with the community. The best way is to make an aspirancy of several weeks. Some people have skipped that and found out later they didn't belong there. Take time before entering to feel out a place. Correspondance is nice, but you cant tell unless you live the life.[/quote]

This sounds very much like what the Mother Prioress at Tehachapi said to me. After writing and questionaires and conversations...the only thing to do is come and see. When I told her (thank you tradmom) that it mattered to me greatly that the sisters l o v e each other and value each other she laughed and said I would have that answered when I come this summer.

One thing I have learned is that the Augustinian Rule as lived by the Praemonstratensians means being together almost all the time. And at Bethlehem Priory, there are two Sister to each cell. Fortunately I'm no hermit.

Hope this helps.

[Guadalupe23]

AliceMary said it well. The best way is to live it...your heart will tell you. When I was living in community, my expectations were high! A piece of me thought (unconsciously) that if everyone was truly striving for perfection (In the sense of following God's will) then they would kind of be, maybe, halfway there and living the way of perfection! (does that make sense?) I was shocked to discover the weaknesses of some sisters and that not everyone holds to my ideologies, which I had fostered through studying the teachings of the Church.
I learned a lot of Christ's message: be merciful...as you measure others, so you will be measured. I have many weaknesses as well, just as they do. Sincere joy is a key to seeing if a congregation is healthy. By their fruits you shall know them. Listen to what your heart is saying when you visit and spend time with the sisters. It will be very revealing. "Beware of the so-called "perfect" monasteries." Peace!

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote]And at Bethlehem Priory, there are two Sister to each cell.[/quote]

Wow! Is that because they're growing quickly, or standard practice for them?

[irishdancer]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' post='1493781' date='Apr 6 2008, 02:43 PM']Wow! Is that because they're growing quickly, or standard practice for them?[/quote]

They are growing quickly and do not have a regular monastery building yet so are quite pressed for space. But I don't know if that is the only reason for the practice or if it is temporary. Since it is one of the first things that I was told about community living there, I expect that it will continue for a long time in any event.

However there is lots of glorious land and the sisters have access to it.

Edited April 6, 2008 by irishdancer

[Antoniette]

Look to the life of each rule. Dominicans, Poorl ClareS, Trappistines have different chharism and slightly differEnt ways
To pray to God for us. Writing and viewing websites, can help narrow the search to which Order, but then individual visits are the final answer.
Each house is different, even within orders. My favorite is of course Brooklyn Carmel. They rose from the dead of being disbanded in 1997. A traditional habited groups of apparently happy nuns. Building is sort of modern, traditions old, from Buffalo, where three original Brooklyn surviving nuns went. Quite a bit of latin. For me, they could be more tridentine,, but use chant within Novus Ordo framework. They give a "cuddle with my weeble and wub of the Lord through the rule vibe" and don't seem at all nutsy cookoo for just the sake of tradition because of tradition.

You'll feel at home when you visit the right one, even if you have self doubts, the "Spirit" will CALL

[Guest Perpetualove]

Honestly, I think the best post I have seen on this board about discernment was the list of questions that TradMom posted on another link. Were I little more computer savvy, I think I would be able to find it and either link it or copy and post it. I think it was on what to ask when visiting or something like that. I have it printed and saved at home. But...those questions were great - I really don't think she left anything out - and if you go through that list and can say yes to more than not, and at least yes to the things that are really important to you - well, then, I would say the community is healthy.

Also, it never hurts to ask. I've been told the truth before when challenges were being dealt with...

[Saint Therese]

What do you mean by "beware of the perfect monasteries"?

[shortnun]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1495266' date='Apr 8 2008, 09:32 PM']What do you mean by "beware of the perfect monasteries"? [/quote]
I think it's the same thing as warning someone that there's no such thing as a perfect mate/spouse. We're all human and looks can be deceiving. Thankfully, grace abounds.

[Saint Therese]

If, as you say, grace abounds and no monastery is perfect, then what kind of things would be a red flag?

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1495320' date='Apr 9 2008, 05:28 AM']If, as you say, grace abounds and no monastery is perfect, then what kind of things would be a red flag?[/quote]
There's no if about it - grace [i]does[/i] abound and [i]no[/i] monastery is perfect

The problem here is that you [i]could[/i] list some things that [i]might[/i] be a "red flag" - only in some communities they wouldn't be (if that makes any sense). Because every community is different, what might be a red flag for one would be hardly remarkable in another.
The key, I suspect, is looking at each community with patience and understanding, but most of all through eyes of prayer and the heart rather than the cold light of day. Not that discerners should leave their common sense at home - far from it - but this is a very different kind of decision-making process.

Edited April 9, 2008 by puellapaschalis

[AccountDeleted]

Another thing to think about is that although a community might validly be considered "healthy" - it still might not be the right one for you - since we are all different. There are wonderful communities that I could call "healthy", but even so, I could still not call them "home" for me.

[praxedes]

You have to figure out what are "deal breakers" for you, and then determine "health" based on your own needs. What has already been written is valuable, and I especially liked Nunsense's comment about a place being healthy but not necessarily "home"...

I read Tradmom's list, which was incredibly comprehensive. As Perpetualove suggested, I would go through that list and query yourself...what are YOU comfortable with?

Much of the "health" of the community has to do with the living situation. Small groups vs. large convents/monasteries have very different dynamics. An aggressive/angry Sister in a small group is much different to live with than in a larger, more structured environment. Some people are fine with aggression, others do anything to avoid it. Some people cringe with "happy/jovial" people around all the time and prefer silence, others feel like silence is hostile and threatening. Some of us have been raised in very formal households with set rules/expectations of manners and personal space, others have been raised in very casual and open households with very little regard to privacy. Where do you fit in and what are you comfortable with?

Lastly, I would repeat Tradmom's advice (paraphrase here) to look at the Novice Mistress - carefully. She will be training you; quite literally, she will hold your soul in her very hands. Ask yourself - over and over again - is this the person you want forming your soul? Do you feel comfortable, "safe," and real with her? Do you believe she has the ability to draw the very best out of you? Personally, I cannot stress enough asking questions, paying attention, speaking with your spiritual director, watching the other community members.

Tradmom did speak very well about this process feeling and being very new. I promise you that as you enter religious life, in whatever form, you will feel, at times, very vulnerable and unsure. It is vital that you know you have support and good examples in your community. The last thing you want is to feel unable to ask questions, to reveal your "real" self, to feel unworthy, unwanted, "bad" or any of the other things we all feel at times. This can be a very isolating experience, and the best any of us can ever hope to find in a religious community is a face that truly reveals the mercy and charity of Jesus Christ - not to mention the Resurrection, wherein we find the strength and example to begin again. And when you are starting out, believe me, the image of the Resurrection will become very important to you!

+Pax,
Praxedes