Racism In America

[kujo]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1494034' date='Apr 7 2008, 12:33 AM']And about Superman was written by a skinny little white boy who got picked on his whole life. That is why superman is white.

Will Smith has led many successful movies that aren't seen as black, and Eddie Murphy has a couple movies that aren't "black people movies" (he's done many more targeting the black market) Many black females have a whole host of fans.

Seriously, though, we have shows about people of all ethnicities. We have "George Lopaz" and "everybody hates chris" and a whole host of reality shows that have black stars.[/quote]

Dude, why are you so angry?

Who cares who wrote Superman? "Malcolm X" was directed by an angry militant liberal African-American but that doesn't mean it is any less of a good movie.

Calm down, dude.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1494034' date='Apr 6 2008, 11:33 PM']Will Smith has led many successful movies that aren't seen as black, and Eddie Murphy has a couple movies that aren't "black people movies" (he's done many more targeting the black market) Many black females have a whole host of fans.[/quote]
There have always been successful black American artists. But how many movies are made with a predominantly black cast (not just a few black actors) which are not seen as "black" movies?

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1494034' date='Apr 6 2008, 11:33 PM']Seriously, though, we have shows about people of all ethnicities. We have "George Lopaz" and "everybody hates chris" and a whole host of reality shows that have black stars.[/quote]
I agree that "we have shows [b]about[/b] people of all ethnicities," but that's just my point. Usually if a show is lead by non-white actors, then it is a show about their ethnicity or their color, or at least it is seen that way. "The Cosby Show" is seen as a show about a successful black family. But when a show has a white family, I don't think it's seen as a show about a white family, because white is the standard media image. It is just a show about a family.

Just to reiterate, I don't think this is necessarily an issue of racism. I just think this is something that is part of our society, that a non-white American might notice, and a white American might not notice; and it may be a reason why they have different perspectives on society. I don't think deliberate racism is still common, but I do think that there is still a veiled social and cultural separation between many black and white Americans.

[thessalonian]

I actually believe the hatred toward whites is greater than that in the opposite direction. I've experienced it. We tend to think of racism as only from whites. The door swings both ways on this one.

[dairygirl4u2c]

kujo, i'm sorry my post was sloppy. i was trying to say some complicated things in short and that never works.

with that said, i do not know if you are for or against affirmative action? your posts have been ambiguous in that regard.
i do concede racism can happen to anyone, not just white on black etc etc.

my view is that it's generally not the best weopon to fight discrimination, or to advance blacks. there are other options. but, in a few situations, where the admitting body has shown itself ot be racist discriminating etc, then a little deference can be given. like, if all else is the same, and only the person as a whole looked at, then race can be permitted... or devise whatever clever system you can think of for those few situations.

i've not really seen anyone try to defend affirmative action. half hte people here apparently think it's the right thing to do, so what gives? is it jsut that they don't like it, but when it's right for the right situation, that it's still the best? a quibble over "generally"?
i don't understand why no one is really defending it.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i was reading about racism here on the net, and came across some white supremecy sites.
i find it funny that they talk about liberal pansies being those who are not supremicist, and generally talk in either or, extreme langauge like that of the garden variety conservative robot who believes everything they are suppose to to be a conservative.
again bolstering my view that those for slavery adn preventing women voting etc, were more aptly called conservative than anything.

[kujo]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1494229' date='Apr 7 2008, 03:28 PM']kujo, i'm sorry my post was sloppy. i was trying to say some complicated things in short and that never works.

with that said, i do not know if you are for or against affirmative action? your posts have been ambiguous in that regard.
i do concede racism can happen to anyone, not just white on black etc etc.[/quote]

No worries. Allow me to be abundantly clear about my views of affirmative action:

[u][b][size=5]IT STINKS!!![/size][/b][/u]

I think that it unfairly discriminates against white people who have had NOTHING to do with past bigotry and prejudice. I mentioned before that my ancestors didn't even arrive here until the early 1920s. So then why is it that an African American, whose ancestors have been here longer than mine, and who can, thus, be considered "more American," gets a leg up?

And must I remind everyone here that Irish and Italian immigrants were treated to similar racism and hatred by members of the North. During the Civil War, when a large wave of European immigration occured, Irish men would get off the boats, enlisted into the Northern army, and sent right back out to sea to fight against the South. Yet, I have never received any "reparations" or "affirmative action" or any other preferential treatment because of this. And, you know what? [b]GOOD[/b]. I shouldn't because I had nothing to do with their hardwork. I'm here because of it. I have already received my reward. And these African-Americans have received theirs.

Edited April 7, 2008 by kujo

[dUSt]

I don't know if you'd consider this race related, but in my state, middle income children are allowed to attend pre-k in public school [b]if[/b] English is their second language. My son is [b]not[/b] allowed to attend pre-k, despite the fact that he has a speech impediment.

Fair?

[MissyP89]

It's not just between blacks and whites, either. Parishes in my diocese have been reconfigured to merge soon, causing cultural wars between various ethnicities.

Not to mention the Puerto Ricans and Italians slinging slurs back and forth...and they'll soon be sharing a parish.

I think it's heartbreaking. So yes, there is definitely a serious problem.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1493561' date='Apr 6 2008, 11:00 AM']Should we do anything to correct this inequality? Or just let them to continue to play with this new deck?[/quote]

Well, i wasn't around when they were still playing cards - the two men are either in a nursing home or dead.

[quote name='dust (the ultra-handsome' post='1494440' date='Apr 7 2008, 06:09 PM']I don't know if you'd consider this race related, but in my state, middle income children are allowed to attend pre-k in public school [b]if[/b] English is their second language. My son is [b]not[/b] allowed to attend pre-k, despite the fact that he has a speech impediment. Fair?[/quote]

i think it is related, since Hispanics (15%) outnumber African Americans (12%) when it comes to population stats.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1493977' date='Apr 6 2008, 09:14 PM']I don't think this is comparable. There are a few players on the court, and thousands of fans in the stands. If anything, that highlights the disparity.[/quote]
Oh please. Really.
When a kid (be he black, white, or whatever) watches the game on tv, he wants to [i]be[/i] the star athlete on the field, court, or in the ring. He could care less about the doofuses in the bleachers.
The athletes in the game are the ones who get the glory, the girls, the big salaries - and they're the ones you turn on the tube to watch in the first place.
All I can say is anyone who watches sports and is primarily concerned with the race of the spectators has very bizarre preoccupations to begin with.

[quote]One successful black actor doesn't change the fact that media image is largely white. Even when racism was blatantly accepted in America, there were still successful black artists.[/quote]
Again, please.
Will Smith isn't just a "successful black actor," but (at least as of last year) was the highest paid, most in demand star in Hollywood - that means more than the white guys. He's a big mainstream leading man, not just some token black guy.
And he's hardly the only successful black actor in Hollywood. Denzel Washington, Samuel L. Jackson, Morgan Freeman, and Wesley Snipes are all big names, to name just a few.

I'm honestly not sure what "media image" you're referring to - it seems blacks are quite well-represented in the entertainment industry: on television, in music, in sports.

[quote]The emulation of black rappers is an interesting issue in itself, because Hip Hop began with a strong emphasis on black identity and helping blacks. Hip Hop became heavily commercialized, arguably because of its acceptance by white Americans, and those original themes virtually disappeared (at least in the public face of Hip Hop). Of course, the artists who chose to make irresponsible music share the blame.[/quote]
I'd say "blackness" is still a major selling factor of hip-hop, although it may be now selling largely negative stereotypes ("gangsta," "pimp" etc.), and to increasingly white audiences. I do think much of rap promotes a negative image of blacks, which too many, black and white, unfortunately embrace. But that's probably a whole other topic in itself.

[quote]I'm not sure what you mean by "set up against." My point was that a white media reinforces a white society. That affects how non-white people see that society. I think this is an even larger issue than just black and white Americans. Hollywood has an enormous influence on the world, so people in other countries are being shaped by American media. America is sort of a cultural empire right now. I don't think this is necessarily an issue of racism, but it is something that affects how we relate and see each other.
But there is nothing about Superman that requires him to be white. If that were part of his character, then I would agree, but it has nothing to do with his character. If race were truly irrelevant in society, why would it matter? Anyway, he was just a random example. I think in general, it is rare for a movie to be lead by black actors (not just one or two), and if it is, it is likely going to be seen as a "black" movie, rather than just a movie. Suppose Superman were cast as a white man, but the rest of the characters in the movie were mostly black. I don't think that would go unnoticed, either. My point is just that race is so embedded in our society, that even if there is not blatant racism, I think we still have an underlying division between us, and we need to break down those barriers (through friendship, through dialogue, and most importantly, through the Gospel).
No problem. I have a particular interest in the cultural and historical aspect of race in America, especially in literature, so I enjoy discussing these kinds of topics.[/quote]
While you may have some legitimate points, I still disagree that blacks are somehow under-represented in media. The truth remains (like it or not) that whites are still the majority in the country at large, and will thus tend to be represented more overall than blacks. I'd say if anything blacks are proportionately more highly represented in entertainment media.
And they're not confined to a fringe market. For example, when people (black and white) go to see Will Smith in [i]Indepence Day[/i], [i]Men In Black[/i], or [i]I Am Legend[/i], they aren't going to see a "black movie," or get a lesson in race relations; they're just going to be entertained.

And Hollywood also seems to have developed its own "reverse stereotypes" - or what I call affirmative action casting. Hollywood blockbusters seem to be disproportionately full of black techo geek types. They are also full of mixed-race criminal street-gangs (virtually non-existant in the real world).

My point is just that I think some people try too hard to see racial inequality or injustice where it's not.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1493960' date='Apr 6 2008, 10:21 PM']I voted "2," though the wording is somewhat ambiguous. I (at least from what I've seen) simply don't think that racism is a huge overwhelming problem in America right now, as liberals often make it out to be.
Of course "outward hatred" still exists among certain people, but this will always be the case. While I in no way condone racism, the fact is that today white racists are a fringe of a fringe, and are not taken seriously and are despised by everyone else. Racism no longer exists on any large institutionalized scale.[/quote]

I don't think that racism exists to the extent it did, say, sixty or seventy years ago, but I still think it exists nonetheless, albeit in subtler ways. Have you ever heard of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Central"]Little Rock Central High School[/url]? In 1957, nine black teens faced intense opposition to their enrollment there. I mean, 1957 isn't too long ago. Many of the blacks who lived during those tumultuous times are still alive today, and those who didn't have parents and grandparents who did. Understandably, many of them still feel a degree of bitterness towards white people. Of course, I don't think that that justifies racism against whites, but I can understand how they might feel mistrustful of white people. In fact, I once saw a documentary about what Little Rock Central High's like nowadays, and sadly, black and white students often choose to sit on separate sides of their classrooms -- i.e., when they're actually in the same classrooms. Sadly, many black kids were in remedial classes, whereas many of their white counterparts were in advanced placement. There's something wrong with that picture, and I don't think issues of that nature are limited to Little Rock Central High.

Have you heard about the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six"]Jena Six[/url]? White students hung a noose from a tree as a "joke," and blacks retaliated by beating a white student. To me, the racial tension in that situation is pretty palpable. Again, in California (and probably in other states, too), prison inmates are separated along racial lines to prevent riots and fights.

Heck, I've seen subtle signs of racism here in liberal New England. A few family members in their 40s once voiced their discomfort about the idea of interracial dating/marriage. Actually, a lot of people -- black, white, young, and old -- still feel uncomfortable about the idea, which I find absurd.

Disclaimer: Yes, I think that blacks are just as capable of racism against whites as whites are against blacks.

Edited April 8, 2008 by BeenaBobba

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='dust (the ultra-handsome' post='1494440' date='Apr 7 2008, 08:09 PM']I don't know if you'd consider this race related, but in my state, middle income children are allowed to attend pre-k in public school [b]if[/b] English is their second language. My son is [b]not[/b] allowed to attend pre-k, despite the fact that he has a speech impediment.

Fair?[/quote]

No, that's not fair.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1494610' date='Apr 7 2008, 11:37 PM']Will Smith isn't just a "successful black actor," but (at least as of last year) was the highest paid, most in demand star in Hollywood - that means more than the white guys. He's a big mainstream leading man, not just some token black guy.
And he's hardly the only successful black actor in Hollywood. Denzel Washington, Samuel L. Jackson, Morgan Freeman, and Wesley Snipes are all big names, to name just a few.[/quote]

Granted, there are many respected black actors, but there are many, many more respected white actors. Compare the number of Academy Award-winning black actors to the number of Academy Award-winning white actors, and then compare the number of Academy Award-winning white actors to the number of Academy Award-winning black, Asian, and hispanic actors combined. The whites outnumber them all by, well, a lot. Also, look at many of TVs most popular shows. Most of these shows have/had predominately white casts. Sure, [i]The Cosby Show[/i],[i] Family Matters[/i], [i]The Jeffersons[/i], etc. were all great, mainstream programs, but they're outnumbered by shows featuring mostly white casts. And shows featuring predominately Asian casts? Don't think I know of any.

All that said, I think that the media is mostly (and perhaps unintentionally) white-centric, and perhaps that makes minorities feel ill at ease. It might not even come to our notice too frequently because we're white, but I get the sense that others may see things a bit differently.

[quote]And Hollywood also seems to have developed its own "reverse stereotypes" - or what I call affirmative action casting. Hollywood blockbusters seem to be disproportionately full of black techo geek types. They are also full of mixed-race criminal street-gangs (virtually non-existant in the real world).[/quote]

Really? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but what movies are you referring to?

[quote]My point is just that I think some people try too hard to see racial inequality or injustice where it's not.[/quote]

I definitely agree that people of all races can take things too far, but I don't think that changes the fact that race relations are still fraught with tension here in the U.S.

Edited April 8, 2008 by BeenaBobba

[Socrates]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' post='1494784' date='Apr 8 2008, 12:59 AM']I don't think that racism exists to the extent it did, say, sixty or seventy years ago, but I still think it exists nonetheless, albeit in subtler ways. Have you ever heard of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Central"]Little Rock Central High School[/url]? In 1957, nine black teens faced intense opposition to their enrollment there. I mean, 1957 isn't too long ago. Many of the blacks who lived during those tumultuous times are still alive today, and those who didn't have parents and grandparents who did. Understandably, many of them still feel a degree of bitterness towards white people. Of course, I don't think that that justifies racism against whites, but I can understand how they might feel mistrustful of white people. In fact, I once saw a documentary about what Little Rock Central High's like nowadays, and sadly, black and white students often choose to sit on separate sides of their classrooms -- i.e., when they're actually in the same classrooms. Sadly, many black kids were in remedial classes, whereas many of their white counterparts were in advanced placement. There's something wrong with that picture, and I don't think issues of that nature are limited to Little Rock Central High.

Have you heard about the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six"]Jena Six[/url]? White students hung a noose from a tree as a "joke," and blacks retaliated by beating a white student. To me, the racial tension in that situation is pretty palpable. Again, in California (and probably in other states, too), prison inmates are separated along racial lines to prevent riots and fights.

Heck, I've seen subtle signs of racism here in liberal New England. A few family members in their 40s once voiced their discomfort about the idea of interracial dating/marriage. Actually, a lot of people -- black, white, young, and old -- still feel uncomfortable about the idea, which I find absurd.

Disclaimer: Yes, I think that blacks are just as capable of racism against whites as whites are against blacks.[/quote]
Again, I'm not denying that racism exists - I'm just saying I don't see it as a huge widepread problem in America needing more government activism to solve.

Incidents like the Jena Six (which I regard as deplorable all round) are big national news and get major coverage as showing a major national problem of racism which needs to be dealt with.
But lets face it - the fact that it was big news shows it's not an everyday occurence, nor does it reflect race relations in general.

While racial violence is evil and unacceptable, we often ignore the MUCH larger scale problem of black-on-black violence in this country. And the statistics show that black-on-white violent crime is much more common than white-on-black. This is the rarest category of violent crime, yet receives the greatest amount of media coverage, because it helps feed the liberal orthodoxy that America is a hopelessly racist country in need of more affirmative action and additional "h[font="Arial"]a[/font]te crime" legislation, etc.
(And, of course, countless everyday examples of people of different races living in peace and helping each other out get no media attention.)
I'm not condoning or denying white h[font="Arial"]a[/font]te crime against blacks, but just saying we need to be realistic and put things in truthful perspective.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Socrates

[Socrates]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' post='1494795' date='Apr 8 2008, 01:34 AM']Granted, there are many respected black actors, but there are many, many more respected white actors. Compare the number of Academy Award-winning black actors to the number of Academy Award-winning white actors, and then compare the number of Academy Award-winning white actors to the number of Academy Award-winning black, Asian, and hispanic actors combined. The whites outnumber them all by, well, a lot. Also, look at many of TVs most popular shows. Most of these shows have/had predominately white casts. Sure, [i]The Cosby Show[/i],[i] Family Matters[/i], [i]The Jeffersons[/i], etc. were all great, mainstream programs, but they're outnumbered by shows featuring mostly white casts. And shows featuring predominately Asian casts? Don't think I know of any.

All that said, I think that the media is mostly (and perhaps unintentionally) white-centric, and perhaps that makes minorities feel ill at ease. It might not even come to our notice too frequently because we're white, but I get the sense that others may see things a bit differently.[/quote]
Regarding black actors, this seems to be changing fast in recent years. Remember a few years back when Denzel Washington and Halle Berry both got oscars (some claim unfairly)? It seems Jamie Foxx was also given nominations. And remember, blacks still are a minority in this country, so it would be wrong to expect numbers to be even.
Anyhow, I don't think there's anything sinister at work here, and I'm not sure exactly what you're advocating.
I think hollywood basically just follows the money on this, and if demand for black-centered movies rises, so will the supply. (And since hollywood is also socially quite liberal, I would see no reason for them to downplay blacks.)
It seems there's also quite a few black newscasters and commentators and such on the air.

As for Asian and hispanics, that's a somwhat different story. These are largely more recent immigrant groups, and in many cases have not assimilated so much into the American mainstream. Many still watch their own ethnic programming in their own native languages. Not racism, but their own lack of integration. (This is actually a whole topic in itself.)

[quote]Really? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but what movies are you referring to? [/quote]
[i]Superman II[/i], [i]Terminator II[/i], [i]Batman Begins[/i], and [i]Transformers[/i] come to mind off the top of my head, and it seems I've seen a number of lesser examples which I forget.

And watch pretty much any action flick - criminal gangs are usually shown as a racially-diverse bunch (if they aren't the common villain stereotype of white supremacist Nazis, who also seem much more common in Hollywood than the real world), unlike in real life (I guess Hollywood wishes to give us some edifying message by showing interracial brotherhood amongst murderous thugs - lol)
[quote]I definitely agree that people of all races can take things too far, but I don't think that changes the fact that race relations are still fraught with tension here in the U.S.[/quote]
Perhaps, but I don't think things are as bad as the liberal media generally makes it out, and it's not clear what, if anything, you're advocating.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Socrates