Transgendered People

[Dismas]

My cat is still a "he" even though he was fixed. Same rule applies. If they don't like it, I might settle for "it", provided they are actually mutilated beyond the ability to normally procreate.

[BeenaBobba]

I'm still confused about how to refer to transsexuals. Honestly, I usually try to avoid using pronouns in reference to them. That's probably a cop-out on my part, but I wish the Church would tell us what to do on this.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1492987' date='Apr 5 2008, 03:45 PM']If I were an OBGYN I would treat and moniter the pregnancy... It's still a kid and deserves to be born. Why punish the innocent human being for its mother's mistakes?[/quote]

I agree.

[Socrates]

The whole "transgendered" phenomenon, and the p.c. movement to push it as "normal" is one of the most disgusting perversions of our modern society.

Surgery of this kind and acompanying "hormone treatments" do not truly change one's sex - they merely mutilate one's body.
A man cannot actually become a woman, nor vice versa.

I've seen a modern edition of the 1950s works of famous "transsexual" travel writer James (now "Jan") Morris, (picked it up before realizing the author was "trans") and the cover and intro consistantly piously referred to the author as "she," even when referring to this man's pre-op exploits (during which "she" fathered about 10 children with "her" wife, now "her" "life-partner").

Sorry, but women do not father children with their wives, and men do not get pregnant.
Calling oneself a man or woman does not make them one, anymore than if I insisted that I was a horse, it would make me a horse.

I refuse to follow politically-correct terminology when referring to these misfortunate persons, however "polite" it may be. Language (and behavior) should reflect actual reality, not cater to lies and delusions.
"Transsexualism" is a mental illness, and should be treated as such.
It should not be regarded as a legitimate "lifestyle" demanding acceptance and "rights" from the rest of society.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Socrates

[kujo]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1493797' date='Apr 6 2008, 04:11 PM']I refuse to follow politically-correct terminology when referring to these misfortunate persons, however "polite" it may be. Language (and behavior) should reflect actual reality, not cater to lies and delusions.

It should not be regarded as a legitimate "lifestyle" demanding acceptance and "rights" from the rest of society.[/quote]

I see your point here, Soc. But I don't believe in making political statements out of my communications with people. If asked, I will surely give my opinion (and, if ya'll ever got to know me personally, you'd realize how forthright and opinionated I really am). But, out of respect for that person's humanity and for their sensitivities, I wouldn't "make a scene."

And transexuals deserve the same basic human rights that everyone else does because they are humans. No more, no less.

[Socrates]

[quote name='kujo' post='1493804' date='Apr 6 2008, 02:17 PM']I see your point here, Soc. But I don't believe in making political statements out of my communications with people. If asked, I will surely give my opinion (and, if ya'll ever got to know me personally, you'd realize how forthright and opinionated I really am). But, out of respect for that person's humanity and for their sensitivities, I wouldn't "make a scene."[/quote]
I see the whole movement insisting that people be referred to by whatever gender they declare themselves, regardless of biological reality, to be using language to make a political statement.
(The more extreme adherents insisting that not even an operation is necessary - if a man says he's a woman, then "she's" a woman and is to be reffered to as such.)
Prudence may dictate not "making a scene" in certain circumstances, but, for instance, if I'm writing regarding the "transexual" pregnant woman, I won't refer to her by male pronouns, and call her a "pregnant man" as the media does.

[quote]And transexuals deserve the same basic human rights that everyone else does because they are humans. No more, no less.[/quote]
They deserve the same rights as other human beings, but their disorder deserves no "rights." They have no right to their own public bathrooms, nor to use whatever public restroom they choose, nor that health plans be legally required to cover the costs of their surgeries and other procedures, etc. (All of these things they have demanded.)

If you think this is not a highly politicized movement, you are mistaken.

[kujo]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1493823' date='Apr 6 2008, 04:35 PM']I see the whole movement insisting that people be referred to by whatever gender they declare themselves, regardless of biological reality, to be using language to make a political statement.
(The more extreme adherents insisting that not even an operation is necessary - if a man says he's a woman, then "she's" a woman and is to be reffered to as such.)
Prudence may dictate not "making a scene" in certain circumstances, but, for instance, if I'm writing regarding the "transexual" pregnant woman, I won't refer to her by male pronouns, and call her a "pregnant man" as the media does.
They deserve the same rights as other human beings, but their disorder deserves no "rights." They have no right to their own public bathrooms, nor to use whatever public restroom they choose, nor that health plans be legally required to cover the costs of their surgeries and other procedures, etc. (All of these things they have demanded.)

If you think this is not a highly politicized movement, you are mistaken.[/quote]

We are in complete agreement, Soc. I don't view my use of language as a political statement, just an attempt to be polite and not ruffle feathers unnecessarily.

But I agree...I don't think we need to start having Sheman or Hewoman bathrooms. But, at the same time, if you look like a dude, just go to the dude's bathroom, go into a stall, and take care of business. If you look like a chick, go into the chick's bathroom. If you don't, don't be stupid...don't make a scene! Just go where your parts tell you to go.

[cmotherofpirl]

Mutilating your breasts and growing a beard doesn't make you a man, it makes you a woman with seriously grave issues. Any doctor who would operate on people with such issues should have his license revoked and his head examined. Your feelings do not define your gender, because feelings are transient in nature. Accepting what God made you is an act of courage for all of us.

[kenrockthefirst]

FWIW, "gender" is a social construct, based in part on one's sex. The words mean different things and are not in fact interchangeable, although "gender" is often used as the "polite" term for "sex."

Because we live in a Fallen world, sometimes there are physical problems as regards one's sex, i.e. improperly developed genitalia, hormonal imbalances, etc. How should we treat people with physiological issues with regard to their sex, and hence the gender role they assume? Does it come down to chromosomes? How invasive are we willing to be?

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
does anyone have any statistics on how many people have had surgeries or hormone treatment to 'switch' sexes, and then decided to 'switch' back?

[Lena]

Those kind of stats would be interesting to see. I'm interested in the "why" of the matter... what causes someone to be transgendered? I found some interesting info. on it: [mod]Link removed. --Era Might[/mod]

[CatherineM]

There are many indeterminate sex babies that used to be operated on at an early age to "fix" the problem. They sometimes have surgery to go back when they get older. I had a client who was born male, had something horrible happen at circumcision, and the doctors told his parents that changing him to a female would be best. It didn't work out that way. I saw a program on HBO years ago about sex re-assignment surgery, and they had a guy on there who was gay, and so upset by being gay that he talked them into doing a sex change on him. He changed his mind too late. He was just so broken. He was trying to talk the government into paying to have him reconstructed under the same medical act that reconstructs guys who have been injured in war or accidents. It just shows how damaging sexual dysfunctions can be in people's lives.

[Lena]

Going along with what Catherine said.....anyone read "Middlesex" by Jeffrey Eugenides? It is a personal (fictional) account of an intersexed man/woman. A very different kind of book to read, it was really sad to see the effects of being born that way and then having to choose what gender to identify as.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1494149' date='Apr 7 2008, 10:46 AM']It just shows how damaging sexual dysfunctions can be in people's lives.[/quote]
This is the point, IMHO. Not political correctness or whatever, but people trying to figure out what the rest of us are trying to figure out: who am I, where am I going, what's my purpose in life?

[kujo]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1494149' date='Apr 7 2008, 12:46 PM']It just shows how damaging sexual dysfunctions can be in people's lives.[/quote]

Exactly. It's not about being politically correct, or resisting the liberal agenda; rather, it's about being sensitive to the needs and sensitivities of another human being. I find that dealing with this people is similar to dealing with homosexuals--we must approach them with the love that God has for all of His children and respect them as such. We should gently guide them, when given the opportunity, and in appropriate times and situations, towards penitence and trust in God to help them carry their heavy burden. I don't think we should do the hellfire and brimstone method of ministry where you convict someone in hopes that their guilt will force a conversion. I just don't find that method to be particularly effective.