A Poll About Health

[Everything in Moderation]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1492014' date='Apr 3 2008, 04:18 PM']Currently the world is a bit off kilter when it comes to our body: we treat our food and bodies seriously and our sins and souls casually.
If our bodies are on loan from God to house our souls while we are on earth, then it behooves use to take good care of these "loaners". However spending your day at the gym to get those perfect abs or eating like a pig in front of the TV are both wrong. Moderation in ALL things.[/quote]
I couldn't agree more.

[picchick]

I also want to add that part of the reason that health care is so expensive is because the world has become so unhealthy. If we tried to prevent some of the preventable health problems like Type 2 diabetes (largely because of obesity), cardiomyopathy (also because of obesity and a high fat diet), and cancers (smoking) it would lower some of the costs. Much of the cost is also the waste of supplies but I think that if we lived healthier and tried to take care of our bodies a little bit more, we would be helping our fellow neighbor who might not be able to afford health care now.

[Aloysius]

there are lots of reasons that health-care costs are so enormous, and to me these are systematic reasons and nothing else: the system is broken, the system drives up costs, the system devalues money so that poor people can no longer afford basic medical care, et cetera. to me it's like insisting upon taking someone out to dinner, and then complaining the whole time about how much the meal costs. the system insisted upon building itself up in this manner and it has no right to then tell us what we can and cannot do with our lives based upon how much stress it puts on that system.

but that's beside the point. Socrates, how is the question loaded? I felt I gave accurate descriptions of each poll option... is there some other way you would have worded your option? did you feel I painted your option in an unfair light? I worded my own option as fairly as I worded every other option in my estimation, hence the question is not loaded.

* Praepropere - eating too soon
* Laute - eating too expensively
* Nimis - eating too much
* Ardenter - eating too eagerly
* Studiose - eating too daintily

notice that doesn't include 'eating too unhealthily'. so long as someone doesn't do any of the above, if someone still gets fat but it doesn't interfere with his vocation in life, I feel it is not sinful. even if in the long run that shortens his potential lifespan. it is an important distinction to me that it be his [i]potential[/i] lifespan... ie it is not accurate to say someone is killing themselves if they are simply shortening their [i]potential[/i] lifespan.

oh, and it was my understanding that in Aquinas's lifetime there was a joke about him sitting down at a round table to discuss Islam and it had to be cut into the shape of a Muslim crescent so that he could fit at the table. clearly an exaggeration, but not an exaggeration about a slightly stocky guy but about someone who was clearly overweight.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1495409' date='Apr 9 2008, 06:29 AM']but that's beside the point. Socrates, how is the question loaded? I felt I gave accurate descriptions of each poll option... is there some other way you would have worded your option? did you feel I painted your option in an unfair light? I worded my own option as fairly as I worded every other option in my estimation, hence the question is not loaded.

* Praepropere - eating too soon
* Laute - eating too expensively
* Nimis - eating too much
* Ardenter - eating too eagerly
* Studiose - eating too daintily

notice that doesn't include 'eating too unhealthily'. so long as someone doesn't do any of the above, if someone still gets fat but it doesn't interfere with his vocation in life, I feel it is not sinful. even if in the long run that shortens his potential lifespan. it is an important distinction to me that it be his [i]potential[/i] lifespan... ie it is not accurate to say someone is killing themselves if they are simply shortening their [i]potential[/i] lifespan.

oh, and it was my understanding that in Aquinas's lifetime there was a joke about him sitting down at a round table to discuss Islam and it had to be cut into the shape of a Muslim crescent so that he could fit at the table. clearly an exaggeration, but not an exaggeration about a slightly stocky guy but about someone who was clearly overweight.[/quote]
The question itself wasn't loaded, so much as as your explanation, though I may be reading too much into it. You seem to pit the idea that we need keep our bodies only at the bare minimum of health to do our duties against the idea that we must do all in our ability try to live as long as we possibly can. I think there's a HUGE range between these two extremes.

If you read overmy earlier posts, you'll notice I never said being fat was itself a sin. Some people are fat not out of gluttony or laziness, but by genetic disposition. How fat St. Thomas was is really beside the point. He could well have been genetically prone to fatness.

About St. Thomas and unhealthy eating, it should be noted that somethings were different in his time than ours.
1) Dietary science had not developed to the point it is now, so there was not as much of a concept of "healthy" vs. "unhealthy" eating. Dietary concerns were generally more about quantity and scarcity.
2) Modern "junk food" was not available in medieval times, and food was generally healthier. The 13th century man simply did not have the option of living on a diet of McDonalds, soda pop, chips, and twinkies.
Even sugar was not widely available in medieval Europe, and sweets were regarded as dainties and delicacies. St. Thomas might well consider a diet of excessive sweets and treats to be a sin of Laute or Studiose.
And eating to the point of damaging one's health would surely be Nimis.

Also, a medieval man didn't have the option of living the completely sedentary lifestyle made possible by modern technology. He couldn't spend a workday sitting at a computer, drive a car everywhere, and spend his free time sitting in front of the tube or on the net. And anyone who would spend his day in such physical inactivity would likely be regarded as slothful.

My main point is that I believe it is wrong to willingly let one's health go to pot, and the body deserves more respect than that as a gift of God and temple of the Holy Spirit. And I think St. Thomas would agree.
Exactly where one draws the line is subjective, but I don't think it's good to seek only a bare minimum of health to keep going.
But then maybe we're actually in agreement, and I'm just somewhat misunderstanding your point.

[-I---Love]

hahaha Aloysius, I am glad to see that I have influenced you and that you are not ready to settle for your own answer quite yet

Edited April 10, 2008 by -I---Love