Vegetarianism

[Aloysius]

they weren't a hindrance at all for their vocations in life as farmers. perhaps they wouldn't have been the best marathon runners, but that's besides the point, they were totally well nourished enough to live their lives as they were best able to.

[Dismas]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' post='1491696' date='Apr 2 2008, 11:58 PM']Yeah, and that's too bad. Usually, wealthier people can afford to eat organic food regularly, while on the other end of the spectrum, the poor often choose to eat at places like McDonalds, where you can buy a meal (albeit an unhealthy meal) for three bucks. That's definitely problematic.[/quote]
Eating at McDonald's is a choice, and a foolish one, as a primary means of food consumption on a tight budget.

Believe me, it is far more cost effective to go to a grocery store, buy a sliced loaf of bread, deli meat, and coagulated milk, go home, and spend twenty minutes to make a loaf of sandwiches, and tie the bag back up. Please note that I received this idea a number of years ago by a gentleman who was forced to live on disability since the early 1980's.

McDonald's is never an excuse.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1492021' date='Apr 3 2008, 03:36 PM']they weren't a hindrance at all for their vocations in life as farmers. perhaps they wouldn't have been the best marathon runners, but that's besides the point, they were totally well nourished enough to live their lives as they were best able to.[/quote]

This is true, the Irish Peasentry were forced to rely on Potatoes, (I won't go into the history there, trust me, there's alot of fluff), potatoes have all your body needs to survive, except protein, so if you want a helathy lifestyle, potatoes and beef are the way to go.

Of course you have to LIKE eating potatoes and meat all the time. Oh yeah, and water.

Its impossible to have any food that is not bad for you in some way, artificle or processed foods just happen to be the worst. Personally, eating meat is good if you wish to grow, i've been eating meat all my life and i'm just under 6', (I'm 18 and i'm hoping to hit 6' 1" before i'm 21, the usual stopping age for growing in your average man), i'm the tallest in my family, (i'm also the youngest), meat for all its downsides is undeniably the easiest source for nourishment.

Sides, there is also the taste issue, I like my food when its nice, more so then I care if its healthy. Personal opinion Thar.

In response to the cow question, our rain and something about our soil means we grow the best grass in the world in Ireland, by consequence, we raise the best cattle, both our beef and our dairy are premium quality. So is our linen, but its so good its expensive and everyone buys cheap linen these days. Irish Linen is hard to get, as the industry died out. Irish linen can only be hand made now.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1492067' date='Apr 3 2008, 06:44 PM']Believe me, it is far more cost effective to go to a grocery store, buy a sliced loaf of bread, deli meat, and coagulated milk, go home, and spend twenty minutes to make a loaf of sandwiches, and tie the bag back up. Please note that I received this idea a number of years ago by a gentleman who was forced to live on disability since the early 1980's.[/quote]

I agree that there are choices other than McDonalds for poor people, but even deli meats aren't particularly healthy if they're eaten regularly because they're generally quite high in sodium. Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of cheaper food is less healthy. You can buy processed, fatty, and high caloric TV dinners at the grocery store for a few bucks, but the healthier, organic version of the same meal would cost a few bucks more at a store like Whole Foods. Anyhow, I'm not saying that it's impossible for poor people to eat healthy food; what I'm saying is that it's a whole lot easier for people who are well-off.

[Dismas]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' post='1492117' date='Apr 3 2008, 06:23 PM']I agree that there are choices other than McDonalds for poor people, but even deli meats aren't particularly healthy if they're eaten regularly because they're generally quite high in sodium. Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of cheaper food is less healthy. You can buy processed, fatty, and high caloric TV dinners at the grocery store for a few bucks, but the healthier, organic version of the same meal would cost a few bucks more at a store like Whole Foods. Anyhow, I'm not saying that it's impossible for poor people to eat healthy food; what I'm saying is that it's a whole lot easier for people who are well-off.[/quote]
I was simply making an observation on McDonald's.

Also, TV dinners are expensive as well. At the same grocery store, one can find the individual ingredients to the TV dinners to be substantially cheaper than the TV dinner itself. It just takes a little time and effort, and one can make a much healthier dinner of the same type, using non-organic food that would be much healthier and cheaper than the TV dinner.

Let's face it, most people buy TV dinners because its easier. I contend that the largest cause to modern obesity is sloth as opposed to gluttony.

[Dreamweaver]

I was eating a hamburger while reading this thread.... I'm by far a vegetarian. I would like to see people move away from the big-factory type processed meat stuff. My finace's family does a lot of hunting and they process all their meat from a local butcher shop. There's something much better about knowing what is in your hamburger (ground sirloin) and how it was made. If you want to be a vegetarian, go ahead. Just don't stand on your soapbox and tell me my choice to eat meat/wear leather is wrong.

I find it a bit absurd how hung up people are about the whole non-GMO/organic movement. I buy based on my wallet. Maybe it'll haunt me in the future; but if we were to grow exclusively organic crops, it would be impossible to feed the world, and there would be more waste and spoilage.

[Paddington]

I'm out of practice on this one....but calories-per-penny is the way to save money and it also happens to be largely healthy. Often rice (including long-grain which is mostly what I see at grocery stores nowadays) is 30-40 calories per penny. It can even be more. Meat is normally a few calories per penny if that. Beans, a great source of protein and fiber, are often over 10 calories per penny. Most foods are under the 10 cals per penny mark. Some are very low. Fast food is often about 2 calories per penny or less. If you can get your diet to average 10 calories per penny, then you are looking at $2.00 for 2,000 calories - one day of survival. It can be done cheaper when rice is featured in each meal. If you happen to fast, then whew! you will save like crrrazy. Unfortunately fruits and vegetables are expensive by this standard, but they can be mostly replaced through a multi-vitamin (cheap) and beans (cheap.) There is no need to spend more than $1.00 a day on fruits and veggies. 3 bananas and a magic pill would be about $1.00.

This has been off my mind for so long, but it is starting to excite me.
God knows I could find other ways to spend the money if I take up the habit.

[Autumn Dusk]

I am someone who never felt comfortable using vitamins, especially since they can lead to an overabundance of certain vitamins, especially ones like Vitiman C. This can slowly do damage to liver and kidneys, I you say, eat other foods fortified with vitiman C and then eat foods normally with vitiman C, which is more than you'd think, you can have problems in the future

[Lena]

Meat isn't inherently bad for you, I try to eat meat once a week. I wish I could find better sources for meat, but it's expensive to buy free-range. I eat a lot of beans, lentils, rice, frozen veggies, etc most days since it's cheaper and I like making bean salads.

As for leather/fur, I can't afford real fur but nor do I want to be wearing a dead animal around my neck.

[Paddington]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1492246' date='Apr 3 2008, 11:13 PM']I am someone who never felt comfortable using vitamins, especially since they can lead to an overabundance of certain vitamins, especially ones like Vitiman C. This can slowly do damage to liver and kidneys, I you say, eat other foods fortified with vitiman C and then eat foods normally with vitiman C, which is more than you'd think, you can have problems in the future[/quote]

Word. I can't see you being against 2 or 3 multis a week. Or do you think that is still risky?

[Adrestia]

to clear up some of the confusion:

from: [url="http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight-loss/AN01619"]http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight-loss/AN01619[/url]
"Researchers hypothesized that the diet plus exercise group would lose more body fat, but results showed equal amounts of weight and fat lost in both groups. [b]This confirms that weight loss is all about calories[/b]: If you burn more calories than you eat, you'll lose weight."

from: [url="http://www.obesityinamerica.org/causes.html"]http://www.obesityinamerica.org/causes.html[/url]
The major contributing factor to obesity is food intake.

from: [url="http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates.html"]http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsourc...bohydrates.html[/url]
"Don't be misled by the blanket pronouncements on the dangers of carbohydrates. They are an important part of a healthy diet. Carbohydrates provide the body with the fuel it needs for physical activity and for proper organ function. The best sources of carbohydrates—fruits, vegetables, and whole grains—deliver essential vitamins and minerals, fiber, and a host of important phytonutrients."

[Veritas]

[quote name='Dreamweaver' post='1492223' date='Apr 3 2008, 08:01 PM']but if we were to grow exclusively organic crops, it would be impossible to feed the world, and there would be more waste and spoilage.[/quote]

+

This is a very common MISCONCEPTION. Organic can, and will, feed the world.

[hecklingsoul]

I was a vegetarian (few eggs and dairy) for about 5 years up until this year. I did it for health reasons and because I am not that big of a meat fan.

I switched back to eating meat this year. I read an article about a woman who was a vegetarian and was staying with some family/tribe somewhere Africa (I think). Anyway, they had very little food, but the little they had they offered her--including meat. She turned it down because she was vegetarian. She later questioned her decision. Who was she to turn down food when there were people who barely could survive? Anyways, her story hit home with me.

Whenever I watched a show on the Travel Channel or Food Network that showed how people ate in these small third world countries, I felt bad. I also started to become hyper-aware of everyone I was inconveniencing with my vegetarianism. If we all ordered food in at work and my order was goofed up, someone always went back out for me. My wife made me special meals.

To make a long story short, I gave up being a vegetarian, but I do spend a little extra money to buy free range organic meat. Because it taste better, its more humane, and I like to help local farmers.

[Veritas]

+

What about italians, who eat pasta every day and asians, who eat rice with nearly every meal? Kind of debunks the carbs kill you debate, no?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1492138' date='Apr 3 2008, 05:44 PM']Let's face it, most people buy TV dinners because its easier. I contend that the largest cause to modern obesity is sloth as opposed to gluttony.[/quote]
Amen!

I eat plenty of both meat and carbs, yet am (comparitively) lean, mean, and healthy.
Get plenty of exercise, go light on the sugars (my personal weakness), and choose lean meat (actually often cheaper than the fatty stuff), eat your greens, and you'll be fine.

No one gets a lean, healthy figure without good exercise.
People want to substitute fad diets for hard work and exercise, but it doesn't work that way.