Vegetarianism

[Autumn Dusk]

Meat, in how Americans eat it, is not good. We eat more percentage of meat in our diet than is really necessary.

I'd go vegetarian only becuase, when done right, its cheaper.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1491395' date='Apr 2 2008, 11:21 PM']4. The consumption of meat is archaeologically linked with the evolution of man (If you dig that stuff, which liberals pretend to).[/quote]
I was about to take offense, and then I realised you were talking about evolutionists being liberals, not archaeologists. (though some, of course, are quite liberal).

[quote name='Dismas' post='1491395' date='Apr 2 2008, 11:21 PM']With that stated, I reeeeeeally like meat. I eat raw beef sandwiches (fresh ground round on rye, chopped onions and black pepper - yum!). I eat steaks rare - bleeding on the plate rare. Leather is expensive, but I like it too much to not buy.[/quote]
Well, I don't go that far on the ground beef, but I do enjoy a nice rare steak. All I care about is that it's warm, but it should be bleeding. Ooh, the best thing is when you get a nice thick sirloin, butterfly it, stuff it with portobello mushrooms, put some black pepper on it, and enjoy.

[kujo]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1491094' date='Apr 2 2008, 10:57 AM']I agree. The Church definitely affirms the rights of animals to healthy and humane treatment. I think the conflict is when the animal rights movement, like any movement, becomes like a religion among a few extremists, like when animals are believed to have equal rights and dignity with humans.[/quote]

Yeah. My thing is that I don't care how my food is treated before it gets to my plate. I mean, take the debeaking of chickens. I know it sounds horrible, but it serves a purpose--if the chickens peck at each other, it can cause infections and futher-weakening of their muscles. And I want my chicken wings healthy and hearty.

I don't think we should frivilously harm animals; however, as I voted, I think that if the treatment benefits society (i.e.- makes the food better, provides better materials for clothing, etc.), I'm okay with it.

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1491397' date='Apr 2 2008, 07:28 PM']Meat, in how Americans eat it, is not good. We eat more percentage of meat in our diet than is really necessary.

I'd go vegetarian only becuase, when done right, its cheaper.[/quote]

I don't eat nearly enough ribs!

[img]http://www.chinesefooddiy.com/images/Baby-Back-Ribs.jpg[/img]


[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1491399' date='Apr 2 2008, 07:31 PM']I was about to take offense, and then I realised you were talking about evolutionists being liberals, not archaeologists. (though some, of course, are quite liberal).
Well, I don't go that far on the ground beef, but I do enjoy a nice rare steak. All I care about is that it's warm, but it should be bleeding. Ooh, the best thing is when you get a nice thick sirloin, butterfly it, stuff it with portobello mushrooms, put some black pepper on it, and enjoy. [/quote]

I'm pretty sure that if I gave up meat, my mother would beat me with her wooden spoon! Her meatballs are the things of folklore!

[img]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6458/collegepix245ks4.jpg[/img]

[goldenchild17]

I tried the vegetarian thing for awhile. Didn't work out. I think for the most part being 100% vegetarian is not healthy, especially if you eat tofu to compensate. I'm all for caring for animals but I also believe that they are created for our use. As long as we don't hurt them unnecessarily we can use them for our benefit. I think by and large the processes used today to produce animal products are extremely inhumane, but I do believe it's perfectly fine to eat meat that you either hunt or get from a free-range or organic operation. I don't tend to wear too many animal products (except for shoes sometimes, though I usually stick to converse all-stars), but that's mostly just personal choice rather than for a moral reason. I do think a lot of the animal product clothing is overdone and not really necessary.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' post='1491259' date='Apr 2 2008, 03:00 PM']Peter Singer supports killing newborn babies until up to thirty days after birth, just so you know.



Okay, people are already complaining about overpopulation (which is completely false, by the way). If we cut off half our food source, would that just make it worse? If starving families in third world countries are denied meat, what will they do? Eat grass? Besides, what about all the pretty scenery that liberals are always complaining about? Seriously, they obsess about 'overpopulation' and not destroying the environment, then suggest that the world uses plants as its one and only food source? Don't they realize that would create more problems than it would solve? Like people would be hitting animals while driving every other day because they weren't hunted anymore.[/quote]
Lawl!! Save the Animals but kill the babies!!!

Btw, more time and energy is required to grow cows than grains, corn, etc. I heard something about erosion too.

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1491397' date='Apr 2 2008, 06:28 PM']Meat, in how Americans eat it, is not good. We eat more percentage of meat in our diet than is really necessary.

I'd go vegetarian only becuase, when done right, its cheaper.[/quote]
Indeed. I was a vegetarian for a short time. I'm sort of lapsed now, but I'm not a rabbid meat eater. I eat once and a while. Americans (and Canadians) consume too much protein.

[quote name='kujo' post='1491539' date='Apr 2 2008, 09:01 PM']I'm pretty sure that if I gave up meat, my mother would beat me with her wooden spoon! Her meatballs are the things of folklore![/quote]
There is no spoon

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote]Indeed. I was a vegetarian for a short time. I'm sort of lapsed now, but I'm not a rabbid meat eater. I eat once and a while. Americans (and Canadians) consume too much protein.[/quote]

False. Americans get too much fat from meat. Omega Acids are necessary and hard to find in but protein is better found in lentils, beans and rice.

[Socrates]

[quote name='ChildoftheCreator' post='1491035' date='Apr 2 2008, 01:05 AM']The title is self-explanatory, I hope. So what do you guys think of it? Do you think that wearing leather and fur is ok? And to get a little more off topic, are experiments on animals ok?

I am reading a book called [i][/i]Animal Liberation[i][/i] by Peter Singer. At first I really gawked at the title, because I thought, animal liberation? what the heck! I mean I cuddle with my weeble and wub my cat, but if I was starving, you bet that I would turn my hungry gaze on her. His first chapter dealt with "specieism" which I thought went a little too far--mainly that we should put animals at the same level as human beings. However, his book seems to me to be a series of logical proofs, and they are good examples, too, about why one would want to become a vegetarian. He sets up vegetarianism as a boycott against meat. Why would one want to boycott meat? Because eating meat is intrinsically morally wrong? No, because it enforces a system of slaughterhouses whose animal conditions cause undue suffering to animals. Plus, plants can feed a larger amount of the population. In the US oats produce 2.5 food calories per calorie of fossil fuel, potatoes--2, wheat and soybeans--about 1.5. Now listen to this, range land beef takes three fossil fuel calories for every one calorie produced by the meat of the cow. And the feed lot beef uses 33 fossil fuel calories per one calorie in the meat. Here's a quote from the book, "Don Paarlberg, a former US assistant secretary of agriculture, has said that merely reducing the US livestock population by half would make available enough food to make up the calorie deficit of the nonsocialist underdeveloped nations nearly four times over." From a humanitarian standpoint, there seem to be a lot of good reasons to go vegetarian, as well as health reasons--as long as you eat right, but isn't that really applicable to any type of diet. Anywho, I am considering becoming vegetarian . . . can't say that I feel that killing animals is morally unethical (needless suffering in my mind is, though,) but I will definitely be doing more research before I jump into this. I always seem to take a long time in decision making. [/quote]
First of all, I'd stear clear of anything by Peter Singer when looking for moral guidance.
That man is one of the most blatantly evil and twisted "intellectuals" around today. I wrote an article on him some years back, and I've researched his works rather thoroughly.
In his other books, "Dr. Death" (as he's known) has advocated legalizing infanticide until one or two years after birth, as well as the killing of the severely retarded and disabled.
He is militantly atheist and anti-Christian, blaming the Christian Faith for all the world's ills, and advocates a utilitarian ethic which explicitly denies the sacredness of human life. He says that regarding human life as intrinsically sacred is "speciesist," and says that instead life should be valued acording to the mental abilities of the creature. For instance, if a dog or cat shows more cognitive ability than a newborn human infant, the animal therefore deserves more rights than the infant, including the right to life.
He also argues for legal "personhood" for apes and other animals, and in one internet article has defended bestiality on the grounds that humans and animals are not essentially different.
([i]Animal Liberation [/i]is actually one of his tamer works.)

Anyways, I'm a huge carnivore, often eating a couple steaks for dinner.
If people want to practice vegetarianism, I hold no grudge against them, though, so long as they don't try to enforce it on me.

If eating animals was intrinsically evil, God would have condemned it somewhere, yet He does not, and has even commanded the eating of meat (Passover, for instance).

[Socrates]

[quote name='kujo' post='1491539' date='Apr 2 2008, 08:01 PM']Yeah. My thing is that I don't care how my food is treated before it gets to my plate. I mean, take the debeaking of chickens. I know it sounds horrible, but it serves a purpose--if the chickens peck at each other, it can cause infections and futher-weakening of their muscles. And I want my chicken wings healthy and hearty.

I don't think we should frivilously harm animals; however, as I voted, I think that if the treatment benefits society (i.e.- makes the food better, provides better materials for clothing, etc.), I'm okay with it.
I don't eat nearly enough ribs!

[img]http://www.chinesefooddiy.com/images/Baby-Back-Ribs.jpg[/img]
I'm pretty sure that if I gave up meat, my mother would beat me with her wooden spoon! Her meatballs are the things of folklore!

[img]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6458/collegepix245ks4.jpg[/img][/quote]
Dude, your post is making me hungry!

[BeenaBobba]

Unfortunately, farm animals are often treated inhumanely in captivity, and I've got a problem with that, but I suppose going vegetarian could be pretty healthy if done correctly. I'd consider it, but the thing is, to stay healthy and balanced on a vegetarian diet, it's necessary to put a lot of thought and consideration into meal planning. It'd be a bit of a challenge to get all the nutrients one needs, and honestly, I'm not motivated enough to bite the bullet and go for it. If I ever become a vegetarian, however, I think I'd still eat dairy, eggs, and fish.

I mean, half of the American population is overweight, so I think we're doing something wrong as a society. It's too bad organic food is so expensive, too, because the hormones in meat aren't exactly healthy. I think Al had a great idea when he said he'd like to kill the food he eats. You know, I think it's more humane to kill animals swiftly and in the wild. Plus, the meat is so much more natural.

I'm not sure about animal testing, but I guess it'd be okay if the testing wasn't inhumane and if there were no other testing options.

I'm not a big fan of wearing fur. I've seen videos where chinchillas are kept in tiny, tiny cages (they require a lot of space), and when it's time for them to die, someone slowly breaks their necks. The sad thing is that it's quite painful for them; they scream in pain the entire time. I don't think animals should have to suffer like that just so someone can wear fur as a status symbol. Fur coats cost thousands of dollars, and personally, I think that money would be much better spent on the poor. On the other hand, I don't think it's wrong to wear fur if it's necessary. Historically, Native Americans wore fur, and I don't have a problem with that. They respected the animals they killed, and it's not like they had other synthetic fibers to choose from.

Edited April 3, 2008 by BeenaBobba

[rachael]

I was a vegetarian for two years. Good times.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1491598' date='Apr 2 2008, 10:32 PM']False. Americans get too much fat from meat. Omega Acids are necessary and hard to find in but protein is better found in lentils, beans and rice.[/quote]
Ah. My mistake. Point duly noted

[Dismas]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' post='1491634' date='Apr 2 2008, 11:05 PM']I mean, half of the American population is overweight, so I think we're doing something wrong as a society. It's too bad organic food is so expensive, too, because the hormones in meat aren't exactly healthy.[/quote]

Meat is a low priority on this. Refined sugars, sleep deprivation, and sedentary lifestyles do far more damage.

Also, everyone would be doing organic if they were closely priced. Problem is, that there is greater risk, waste, and cost when growing organic for the producer.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1491683' date='Apr 2 2008, 10:46 PM']Meat is a low priority on this. Refined sugars, sleep deprivation, and sedentary lifestyles do far more damage.

Also, everyone would be doing organic if they were closely priced. Problem is, that there is greater risk, waste, and cost when growing organic for the producer.[/quote]
High Fructose Corn Syrup is also evil.

I have friends who only eat "organic" because they can't afford to overeat.

[BeenaBobba]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1491683' date='Apr 3 2008, 12:46 AM']Meat is a low priority on this. Refined sugars, sleep deprivation, and sedentary lifestyles do far more damage.[/quote]

It's not so much the meat itself as it is the unnatural hormones and antibiotics in the meat, though eating a lot of red meat isn't particularly healthy, either. Everything you list, however, certainly contributes to the problem, as does food excessively high in fat.

[quote]Also, everyone would be doing organic if they were closely priced. Problem is, that there is greater risk, waste, and cost when growing organic for the producer.[/quote]

Yeah, and that's too bad. Usually, wealthier people can afford to eat organic food regularly, while on the other end of the spectrum, the poor often choose to eat at places like McDonalds, where you can buy a meal (albeit an unhealthy meal) for three bucks. That's definitely problematic.

[Mercy me]

I am a fur wearing carnivor and I have no regrets about it.