Here's An Interesting What-if

[Aloysius]

What if some future pope (clearly Benedict would never), and this is not entirely unfeasible, were to attempt to introduce ordaining married men to the priesthood in the Roman Church? I could very much see some pope deciding to do this to please the modernists whilst feeling he gave enough of a nod in the way of the traditions of the Church by perhaps forbidding priests who left the priesthood to be married from re-entering it and clearly forbidding priests who were already ordained from marrying.

so... my question is to all the married, soon to be married, or planning to one day be married guys out there: would you ask yourself if you might have an additional vocation to the priesthood if a pope did do this? On the one hand, it'd be uber weird... but on the other hand, you'd have to consider all the arch-liberal anti-traditional people that might start lining up to become priests... perhaps God would intend for some good traditional orthodox fellas to come in and balance them out so that it did not prove to be a total disaster for the Church.

personally, I would consider it if it happened at a time when I was married. Perhaps a rule would be imposed, as I think a rule should be imposed if this were to happen, that married priests can only say mass after abstaining from sex from their wife for the one day or two days before doing so such that married priests ought only to regularly say Sunday mass and mass on Holy Days of Obligation, and not weekday masses. If such a rule were not in place and I were to be in a position to consider this, I would seek a situation in which I could follow such a rule, and then I'd want to say the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite. It would definitely make sense if they were doing it to combat the vocational crisis to have such a rule, because it's not like the priest:laity percentages are really suffering anywhere as regards weekday masses.

I don't know though... what do you all think? I really don't think it's that unfeasible that it could happen; it certainly won't happen with Benedict but you never know with some of the other cardinals out there what kind of plan might strike their fancy were they to be given papal power... Cardinal William Levada does happen to be at Ratzinger's old post right now ... though an American Pope is about as likely as an Easter Bunny Pope.

[LouisvilleFan]

There's nothing weird about it, although tha' celibate priesthood is somewhat integral tha' culture oven tha' Latin Rite. Still, there is already a provision ordaining married pastors oven other denominations who enter tha' Church, obviously tha' Eastern Rites ordain married men, Andy many married men AARRGGH!!! already ordained as permanent deacons.

As tha' other concerns, we already/2 a lot oven lax/liberal priests, so it doesn't seem like there'd be much oven a difference there. I don't think YOU!!!'d see a mad rush oven liberal activist married men into tha' priesthood. After all, an increasing number oven our bishops Andy seminaries AARRGGH!!! orthodox.

More realistically, tha' pope could grant bishops a limited provision ordaining married men. example, setting minimum limits age Andy tha' time vey've been married. 'dis would avoid tha' conflicts thesis come wit' trying balance fatherly Andy pastoral responsibilities Andy prevent stressing a relatively young marriage. A plan like 'dis would allow tha' Church tap into tha' tha' growing numbers oven retired men (not mention their wives, who would surely be more involved in parish ministry as well). oven course, ordaining even more older men might inadvertedly discourage some young men who could get tha' feeling vey don't "fit" in tha' priesthood.

But at any rate, any such change in discipline would best be done gradually, though I'm in tha' boat thesis tha' Church could find ways oven building up tha' Church through lay ministry. It doesn't do any good gain a few more priests if most laypeople remain clueless about what following Christ is about.

[LouisvilleFan]

Hmm... funny... real funny.

[Aloysius]

lol apparently tha' fiddler has been set change common dUSt is handsomer than me... dUSt is going all out April geniuses Day

dUSt is handsomer than me. = w o r d s
tha' = t h e
wit' = w i t h
AARRGGH!!! = a r e
oven = o f

in any event, good points I suppose... ninja ninja ninja ninja ninja what!?!?!?!?!? I meant by it being weird is thesis tha' Latin Church's culture is so intricately drenched in tha' celibate priesthood, it really would be weird those oven us hooty hoo henry thesis kind oven culture.

I donno, I kind oven think thesis it is entirely feasible thesis we might end up wit' a pope hooty hoo would make a drastic change saying thesis seminaries were now free accept married men.

note self: do not start serious conversions on April geniuses Day.

[farglefeezlebut]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1490514' date='Apr 1 2008, 08:28 PM']in any event, good points I suppose... ninja ninja ninja ninja ninja what!?!?!?!?!? I meant by it being weird is thesis tha' Latin Church's culture is so intricately drenched in tha' celibate priesthood, it really would be weird those oven us hooty hoo henry thesis kind oven culture.

I donno, I kind oven think thesis it is entirely feasible thesis we might end up wit' a pope hooty hoo would make a drastic change saying thesis seminaries were now free accept married men.[/quote]


You REALLY picked the wrong day to post this topic.

[LouisvilleFan]

Or rather, I picked the wrong day to reply

[CatherineM]

I knew a married priest in Tulsa years ago. He'd been a protestant minister. I can't remember which denomination now. They had him doing chaplain work. I don't think it would ruin the church.

[Archaeology cat]

I don't think it would ruin the Church, but I'd rather keep celibate priests, personally. Maybe it's just because, in my years as a Protestant, I can't remember really seeing ministers who were able to devote the necessary time to both their ministry and their family. One or the other suffered. And priests are so busy, I don't see how they'd have time to have a family. So that's my $0.02.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1490427' date='Apr 1 2008, 12:14 PM']though an American Pope is about as likely as an Easter Bunny Pope.[/quote]
[img]http://media.southparkstudios.com/media/ss/1105ss_bunnypope_thumbnail.jpg[/img]

[Galloglasses]

Well our Byzantine Brethern can get married. Lets looks at the Orthodox Church Priests can get married and have families, however, if they seek Bishop-hood, they are required to remain celibete to devote their entire lives to God and His Church, which I think is a delightful compromise. It won't ruin the Church but Liberals inside and outside the Church would go crasy, those on the inside would want further change, those on the outside would criticise the Church of hypocracy going back and citing 'Papal Infallibility' and so on and so forth.

It won't ruin the Church but these days is the WRONG time for it to be allowed, especially as we're currently coming away from the sex scandal shadow, (the secular world values not frogiveness)

I'm not sure how I personally feel about it, but it's Il Papa's call.

[CatherineM]

I'm really glad it isn't my call.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1491345' date='Apr 2 2008, 09:56 PM']I'm really glad it isn't my call.[/quote]
Yeah, glad it isn't my decision, either.

[picchick]

Here is a question:
Would the pope be infalliable then if he allows married men to become priests? And from there what is stopping him from pleasing the modernists to the point of allowing women priests? Then in response to the "vocation" crisis, what about allowing married women to become nuns?

These sound very wierd to me. I think because my view on these vocations are a way of life rather than a job. When you are a priest you are married to God and to the Church. When you are a married man/woman you are married to your spouse and family. When you are a nun you are married to God.

The rule that you made concerning abstaining from sex before saying Mass. This just doesn't seem to make sense in my mind. To me, it seems that a person cannot serve two vocations well. As a married man, sex is their "job" so to say. Their vocation to marriage includes sex to procreate. However, a priest is to Mass as part of his vocation. Plus, how does a man spend enough time with his family while caring for his parish family, ie hearing confessions, saying Mass, anointing the sick?

[CatherineM]

You don't quite understand how infallibility works. It is only used on very narrow grounds. It doesn't include everything that comes out of the pope's mouth. Priest celibacy is not doctrine, it is a discipline. The faithful are even allowed to disagree with items of discipline, but we are encouraged to faithfully examine our conscience about the issue.

[Aloysius]

priestly celibacy isn't infallible, it's a discipline. it is possible to allow married men to be ordained, but not to allow ordained men to be married and remain clerics (which is contrary to Canon 3 of the First Ecumenical Council of Nicaea)

an all male priesthood is an infallible teaching and no pope can change it.

theoretically, I personally do not believe a Pope could allow ordained men to marry and remain clerics... this is unprecedented in the Church and I see it as contrary to a standing discipline, if not a teaching, of the First Council of the Church.

my thoughts on celibacy before offering mass are inspired by the East, who do not have weekday Divine Liturgies the way we have Daily Mass. periodic abstinence does not mean one is incapable of being in their vocation; people who use NFP practice periodic abstinence; I could say if I wished that they clearly couldn't follow their married vocation because serious reasons prevented them from having children, but I don't (for all cases at least). Periodic abstinence for a priest to purify and distinguish himself prior to saying Mass would make perfect sense.