Why Do You Think Organized Religion Is Right?

[Deb]

The Catholic Church is the church of Jesus Christ. It is centered around the Eucharist. The Catholic Church celebrates the sacraments that the Lord gave us. It is what brings us the truth and also salvation. The Church is a community of believers. Every Catholic Church around the world is offering up the sacrifice to Jesus Christ every mass. I can attend any Catholic Church around the world and feel at home because I know exactly what it is about. This is my religion. For me, it is more than my religion, it is my nourishment for life.

Unless one drinks the blood and eats the body of Jesus Christ, he is not going to make it to the Father. Read the bible every day with your family and that one precept, on which the original church was founded, will not change.

If one follows THIS organized religion, they will not be told to kill or maim or hurt or anything else.

In regards to the first question. The man who said God told him to do it was insane. Doesn't matter what religion he adhered to or even if he had a religion. He was a nut bag. End of story.

Anyone is free to go it alone or to go to one of the other "man-made" religions. I prefer to stick with the one that has set me free to the truth, the light and the way of God.

[abercius24]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1487419' date='Mar 29 2008, 12:12 AM']Why hasn't anybody addressed my arguement, I will not belong to a system that murders people?[/quote]

You know, you're absolutely right. The Human Race is a system that murders people. So in the spirit of your wisdom, I now formally denounce my humanity for the sake of maintaining my own personal sense of purity. Please everyone, follow my example. Don't be a part of such a corrupt and destructive system. Be righteous like me!

Edited April 19, 2008 by abercius24

[Deb]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1500103' date='Apr 15 2008, 03:33 PM']Does God give you visions of himself? Do you hear his voice? When my parents go away they leave me in charge of my brothers. God has done the same thing he has left St. Peter in charge of his brothers and sister.

Now unless you are getting visions from God then your religion is a subjective one. and even if you are getting visions from God how do you know that they are really from God what is your objective measuring stick?[/quote]

Actually, I have had visions of God and the Blessed Mother and of St. Pio and some Saints but, i do not know who they are. I have only heard God speaking to me once but, I wasn't paying much attention to what he was saying because I was so freaking out about this voice in my head. Then he pretty much told me he only comes to me in the middle of the night because it is the only time that I shut up.
Since that, he just floods me with the Holy Spirit when he wants me to pay attention to something or direct me to something or even away from something.
My measuring stick is that my Lord's appearance or presence so to speak always corresponds with prayer or scripture reading or in mass or adoration or when I am witnessing for him. They are major feelings of his Love and they don't tell me to do anything, much less go around killing people. If I did get a message like that, I would know enough to know it was not of God. If I didn't, then I would be an insane person and again, that would have nothing to do with my religion or any religion. Give it up.

The measuring stick for all things like this is the fruits. If they are good, they are most likely from God. Not always as Satan can do amazing things too.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='CatholicMax' post='1500103' date='Apr 15 2008, 02:33 PM']Does God give you visions of himself? Do you hear his voice? When my parents go away they leave me in charge of my brothers. God has done the same thing he has left St. Peter in charge of his brothers and sister.

Now unless you are getting visions from God then your religion is a subjective one. and even if you are getting visions from God how do you know that they are really from God what is your objective measuring stick?[/quote]

LOL!

I don't get 'visions'. The only thing I do know is passages out of the Bible state God wanted to be the only King of men, and we rejected him as King by asking for Kings to guide us like the Heathen Nations. Before that, people could judge what was right and wrong, with the advice of people God would raise up to get people on the straight and narrow again. That's the book of Judges.

If God didn't need human authority to guide his people in the old testament, how much more does he need human authority when he freely pours out his spirit on all flesh in the new testament.

The crazy thing is when I think about joining anybodies religion, I get this feeling in my gut that I shouldn't be there anymore. Since God talks only to our spirits, and the spirit of a person is in their stomach, then I'll trust the voice of God when I feel uncomfortable about being involved in any religion.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1503613' date='Apr 19 2008, 07:23 PM']LOL!

I don't get 'visions'. The only thing I do know is passages out of the Bible state God wanted to be the only King of men, and we rejected him as King by asking for Kings to guide us like the Heathen Nations. Before that, people could judge what was right and wrong, with the advice of people God would raise up to get people on the straight and narrow again. That's the book of Judges.

[b]If God didn't need human authority to guide his people in the old testament, how much more does he need human authority when he freely pours out his spirit on all flesh in the new testament.[/b]

The crazy thing is when I think about joining anybodies religion, I get this feeling in my gut that I shouldn't be there anymore. Since God talks only to our spirits, and the spirit of a person is in their stomach, then I'll trust the voice of God when I feel uncomfortable about being involved in any religion.[/quote]

God did...

Abraham
Isaac
Moses
Joshua
Samson
Samuel

etc...

Edited April 20, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

It was Christ who transferred the authority of the Chair of Moses to the Chair of Peter.

[url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html"]Scripture[/url]

Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).

Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.

[b]Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.[/b]

Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.

[b]Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.

Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.[/b]

Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus' tax. [b]Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.[/b]

[b]Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ's representative on earth.[/b]

Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus' teachings.

Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.

Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.

[url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html"]etc...[/url]

Edited April 20, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1503174' date='Apr 19 2008, 03:13 AM']You know, you're absolutely right. The Human Race is a system that murders people. So in the spirit of your wisdom, I now formally denounce my humanity for the sake of maintaining my own personal sense of purity. Please everyone, follow my example. Don't be a part of such a corrupt and destructive system. Be righteous like me! [/quote]

Actually,

When you become a Christian, you are putting the old man (the sinful weak man) off and putting on the new man made by God upon your belief in his son. So you are rejecting your human nature to not believe in God, making something other than God the reason you live for, enshrining and idolizing ideas, people things, making one day a week about God and God alone, disrespecting and rebelling against your parents, murder, stealing, lying, coveting other people's possesions, and not being involved in sexual sins, and turning your entire passion and focus on living for God and obeying his commandments, because we love him.

So, if you are making a joke that you want to leave the human race because, than have you really died in your flesh and put on Christ Jesus? A person who understands the word of God and loves God would never make such a joke, because I am a new creature in Christ. I am not 'human' in nature anymore, because I love God and want to serve him with all my heart. Human nature rebels against that, so I am no longer part of the human race anymore.

God says we live in the world but are not of the world. Your joke disturbs me.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1484658' date='Mar 26 2008, 11:48 AM']I want to hear why everybody here think any kind of organized religion is right?[/quote]
Simply saying "organized religion is right" is wrong. Only the Catholic Church is right, because it was the Church established by Christ. Other organized religions have some truths to them, but they also have many errors. Only the Catholic Church has the successor of Peter. John 21:15-17

[quote]Organized religion has lead to massacres, death, prejudice, plots of murder, and many other things. Millions of examples through out history?[/quote]
No it hasn't. People have lead people to massacres, death, prejudice, plots of murder, and many other things.

If you are trying to refer to the Crusades, there were 11 of them. The first eight were just, and commissioned by the Pope to win the Holy Land which was taken by savages. The last few Crusades were the king trying to expand his kingdom disguised as a Crusade.

[quote]Wouldn't it be better for people to not belong to a Religion and did things on their own, to learn about God, the universe, and themselves? Why do so many people pass the buck to 'more spiritual' leaders like the Pope? Shouldn't you work out [b]your[/b] salvation with fear and trembling?[/quote]

That is not what Christ wanted. That is not what Christ taught.

[b]St. Matt 28:18 [/b]
[color="#8B0000"]Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [/color]
[b]19 [/b][color="#8B0000"]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, [/color]
[b]20 [/b][color="#8B0000"]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age[/color]."

[b]Luke 10:16[/b] "[color="#8B0000"]He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me[/color]"

[b]St Matt 18:17[/b] (Jesus said) [color="#8B0000"]If he refuses to listen to them, [b][u]tell the church[/u][/b]. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.[/color]

What does the Scripture say that the Pillar and Foundation of Truth is? Answer, The Church....

[b]1 Tim 3:15[/b]
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is [u]the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth[/u].


[b]Acts 8:30-35[/b] - And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest? 31Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32And the place of the scripture which he was reading was this: He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb without voice before his shearer, so openeth he not his mouth. In humility his judgment was taken away. His generation who shall declare, for his life shall be taken from the earth? 34And the eunuch answering Philip, said: I beseech thee, of whom doth the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man? 35Then Philip, opening his mouth, and beginning at this scripture, preached unto him Jesus.

[b]2 Peter 1:20 [/b]- Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.

[b]2 Peter 3:16[/b] - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

[b]Ephesians 2:20[/b]
having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,

[b]Revelation 21:14[/b]
And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

We must follow the Church that Christ built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets.


[quote]The Pope is not going to get you into heaven. Only your trust in God and your reliance on the blood of Jesus?[/quote]

What gets us to Heaven is that Christ died for our sins. What the Pope does is the same thing Peter did, tends the Lord's sheep St. John 21:15-17


[quote]Wouldn't the world be in a better place if there weren't Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, and the millions of religions out there?[/quote]

The world would be a better place if everyone actually followed their religion teachings.

The world would be even better than that if everyone was in the Church God built on the Apostles which is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth - The Catholic Church - and actually followed the teachings.

[quote]Why not just do what Jesus asked us to do, seek the Father with all our hearts, minds, strength, and soul?[/quote]

Please see the above verses I quoted, we are doing what Christ told us to do... in the Church that He built to Teach us about Him... Guided by the Holy Spirit and Never to be Overcome.

[b]St. Matt 16:18[/b] "[color="#8B0000"]And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock (Kephas) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.[/color]"
[b]19 [/b][color="#8B0000"]I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven[/color]."

[b]John 1:42[/b]
Then he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, "[color="#8B0000"]You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Kephas[/color]" (which is translated Peter).

Kephas is Aramaic for Rock.

[b]Matt 5:13 [/b]
"[color="#8B0000"]You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. [/color]
[b]14 [/b][color="#8B0000"] You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. [/color]
[b]15[/b][color="#8B0000"] Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house[/color].

The True Church that Jesus built will be visable for all to see, that it has been visible since the time of the Apostles... The Catholic Church is the only Church that is 2000 years old... The Catholic Church is the "City set on a Mountain that cannot be hidden." All through history, the Catholic Church has been there, all other Christian churches are off shots of the Catholic Church.


[b]John 14:16 [/b]
[color="#8B0000"]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always,[/color]
[b]17 [/b][color="#8B0000"]the Spirit of truth, 9 which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.[/color]
[b]18 [/b][color="#8B0000"]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. [/color]
...
[b]26 [/b][color="#8B0000"]The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name--he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you. [/color]


[b]2 Timoty 3:14 [/b]
But you, remain faithful to what you have learned and believed, [b][u]because [/u][/b][u]you know from whom you learned it, [/u]
[b]15 [/b]and that from infancy you have known (the) sacred scriptures, which are capable of giving you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
[b]16 [/b] All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

[b]2 Thess 2:15 [/b]
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

[b]2 Tim 2:2[/b]
And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

[b]1 Corin 11:2 [/b]
I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.



God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited April 20, 2008 by ironmonk

[Apotheoun]

It is impossible for a human being to cease to be "human in nature." Christ Himself, in the incarnation, assumed human nature, He did not destroy it.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1503646' date='Apr 19 2008, 07:44 PM']It is impossible for a human being to cease to be "human in nature." Christ Himself, in the incarnation, assumed human nature, He did not destroy it.[/quote]

Really,

So you don't believe

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Galatians 6:15

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Ephesians 4:24

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Colossians 3:10

Interesting.

When you give your life to God, and you are found in Christ, you are a new creature, and we are asked to put on the new man four times in Scripture.

If the new man is not different from the rebellious old man, than what has changed.

Again, here is another example of someone who is involved in patti-cake Jesus, saying he is in Christ, but really, you don't have the spirit because you don't know how much it changes you.

When I think of how the father and the son living through me now, I can't help but weep because I am not worthy of their attention. I am a changed man, and I don't like being the person that I am, and I do want to put on the new man, and I am a new creature, completely different from the person I use to be.

[KnightofChrist]

Patti Cake Jesus that rich. Just turn a blind eye to the more detailed posts, and focus on the seemly weak, and short one. I say seemly weak, because in actuality it is not, you just do not understand the point.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1503681' date='Apr 19 2008, 10:35 PM']When you give your life to God, and you are found in Christ, you are a new creature, and we are asked to put on the new man four times in Scripture.[/quote]

If you gave your life to God, you'd be a Catholic Priest.

You should learn how we got the Bible.
You should look up Canonization of the New Testament in Encyclopedia Britannica.
You should read writings of Christians from 100 AD to about 500 AD.

Then, you might begin to know Christ.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1503681' date='Apr 19 2008, 07:35 PM']Really,

So you don't believe

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17[/quote]
Like you, I believe that man can be renewed in Christ Jesus; but unlike you, I do not believe that this recapitulation ([i]apokatastasis[/i]) of humanity requires the annihilation of human nature. In fact, the idea that God would destroy human nature is incoherent, since He created humanity in His own image. Moreover, there is nothing in scripture that says that a man who becomes a "new creature" in Christ ceases to be human; instead, such a man enters into communion with God by participating in the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), while remaining a created human person at the same time.

Interestingly enough, your viewpoint leads to doctrinal heresy in connection with the incarnation, because in the incarnation the Logos assumed human nature and became man, and so to say that human nature is, or is going to be, destroyed, involves the destruction of the incarnate Logos Himself, who is both God and man in one person.

Finally, you should know that simply posting extended scriptural quotations does not produce a valid argument; instead, it merely shows that you know how to use the cut and paste function on a computer.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Apotheoun

[Mercy me]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1503637' date='Apr 19 2008, 08:39 PM']Actually,

When you become a Christian, you are putting the old man (the sinful weak man) off and putting on the new man made by God upon your belief in his son. So you are rejecting your human nature to not believe in God, making something other than God the reason you live for, enshrining and idolizing ideas, people things, making one day a week about God and God alone, disrespecting and rebelling against your parents, murder, stealing, lying, coveting other people's possesions, and not being involved in sexual sins, and turning your entire passion and focus on living for God and obeying his commandments, because we love him.[/quote]

That is not quite right. I struggle daily with my sinful nature and I am not alone. St. Paul spoke about this eloquently in Romans 7. His struggle has often given me hope. I particularly like Romans 7:15-19 [quote]What I do, I do not understand. For I do not do what I want, but I do what I hate (don't hate, appreciate). Now if I do what I do not want, I concur that the law is good. So now it is no longer I who do it but the sin that dwells within me, that is in my flesh. The willing is ready at hand but doing the good is not. [b]For I do not do the good I want but I do the evil I do not want.[/b][/quote]

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1503637' date='Apr 19 2008, 08:39 PM']Actually,

When you become a Christian, you are putting the old man (the sinful weak man) off and putting on the new man made by God upon your belief in his son. So you are rejecting your human nature to not believe in God, making something other than God the reason you live for, enshrining and idolizing ideas, people things, making one day a week about God and God alone, disrespecting and rebelling against your parents, murder, stealing, lying, coveting other people's possesions, and not being involved in sexual sins, and turning your entire passion and focus on living for God and obeying his commandments, because we love him.

So, if you are making a joke that you want to leave the human race because, than have you really died in your flesh and put on Christ Jesus? A person who understands the word of God and loves God would never make such a joke, because I am a new creature in Christ. I am not 'human' in nature anymore, because I love God and want to serve him with all my heart. Human nature rebels against that, so I am no longer part of the human race anymore.

God says we live in the world but are not of the world. Your joke disturbs me.[/quote]

You clearly do not understand even the information that you have posted. Of course the Lord requests that you put on the new man. The new man with faith in Christ and love for Christ and become one in unity with the Holy Trinity and the Church of Christ. You are still man though. It does not say, cast off being a man and become a God. You will always be a human man as long as you reside on this earth. You were given free will. You will slip, you will fall and you will always sin. Even the Saints sinned, constantly. Not in the degree we might but, nevertheless, they were also sinners. Read their works. They admit it all the time.
You will always be human in nature. You may have the Holy Spirit within you, purifying you and transforming you as the goal is to become like Christ but, you will always have human nature. Jesus Christ himself was fully man and fully God. We cannot ever begin to think that we have a smidgeon of his holy nature.
You need some bible study and some organized religion. Going it alone will not show you the truth, the way or the life. This is clear by your posts.