Why Do You Think Organized Religion Is Right?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1497615' date='Apr 11 2008, 08:35 PM']I think God should be a friendship and family thing, and you talk about him with friends and family. Whens the last time your family broke open a bible and each of you read a chapter out of it, and then talk about it? Or is that forbidden by the CC?[/quote]

Forgive me for only taken issue with this and not the rest of your post, I will attempt to get to that later, however it is not forbidden by the Bride of Christ, She in fact prays we read the Bible, and we as catholics do indeed everyday at Holy Mass, not a mere verse but complete passages. IE todays reading...

[b]Reading 1[/b]
Acts 9:1-20

Saul, still breathing murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord,
went to the high priest and asked him
for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, that,
if he should find any men or women who belonged to the Way,
he might bring them back to Jerusalem in chains.
On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus,
a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him.
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him,
“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
He said, “Who are you, sir?”
The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do.”
The men who were traveling with him stood speechless,
for they heard the voice but could see no one.
Saul got up from the ground,
but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing;
so they led him by the hand and brought him to Damascus.
For three days he was unable to see, and he neither ate nor drank.

There was a disciple in Damascus named Ananias,
and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.”
He answered, “Here I am, Lord.”
The Lord said to him, “Get up and go to the street called Straight
and ask at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul.
He is there praying,
and in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias
come in and lay his hands on him,
that he may regain his sight.”
But Ananias replied,
“Lord, I have heard from many sources about this man,
what evil things he has done to your holy ones in Jerusalem.
And here he has authority from the chief priests
to imprison all who call upon your name.”
But the Lord said to him,
“Go, for this man is a chosen instrument of mine
to carry my name before Gentiles, kings, and children of Israel,
and I will show him what he will have to suffer for my name.”
So Ananias went and entered the house;
laying his hands on him, he said,
“Saul, my brother, the Lord has sent me,
Jesus who appeared to you on the way by which you came,
that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Immediately things like scales fell from his eyes
and he regained his sight.
He got up and was baptized,
and when he had eaten, he recovered his strength.

He stayed some days with the disciples in Damascus,
and he began at once to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues,
that he is the Son of God.

[b]Responsorial Psalm[/b]
117:1bc, 2

R. (Mark 16:15) Go out to all the world and tell the Good News.
or:
R. Alleluia.
Praise the LORD, all you nations;
glorify him, all you peoples!
R. Go out to all the world and tell the Good News.
or:
R. Alleluia.
For steadfast is his kindness toward us,
and the fidelity of the LORD endures forever.
R. Go out to all the world and tell the Good News.


[b]Gospel[/b]
Jn 6:52-59

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying,
“How can this man give us his Flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them,
“Amen, amen, I say to you,
unless you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and drink his Blood,
you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood
has eternal life,
and I will raise him on the last day.
For my Flesh is true food,
and my Blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood
remains in me and I in him.
Just as the living Father sent me
and I have life because of the Father,
so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
This is the bread that came down from heaven.
Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died,
whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
These things he said while teaching in the
synagogue in Capernaum.

Edited April 12, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[CatholicMax]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1484658' date='Mar 26 2008, 09:48 AM']I want to hear why everybody here think any kind of organized religion is right?

Organized religion has lead to massacres, death, prejudice, plots of murder, and many other things. Millions of examples through out history?[/quote]
This is a straw man argument Atheism killed more in 100 years than the whole of religion combine. when in history did religion kill 6 million people in a few short years. and that was only one Atheist state Russia was worse.


[quote]Wouldn't it be better for people to not belong to a Religion and did things on their own, to learn about God, the universe, and themselves? Why do so many people pass the buck to 'more spiritual' leaders like the Pope? Shouldn't you work out [b]your[/b] salvation with fear and trembling?[/quote]
Ahhh.... I love the Free Market...
the buck stops here bud. our very way of life is structured around cults(the classic definition), without cults there can be so harmony within society only anarchy. Our spiritual leaders guide the cults we are in, however we must take personal responsibility for our actions and beliefs.(a very Christian idea if i might add)

[quote]The Pope is not going to get you into heaven. Only your trust in God and your reliance on the blood of Jesus?[/quote]

I absolutely agree 210%, no one else can get you to heaven free market is more than just an economic idea it is at the core of Christianity. The Pope (or in the case of a Protestant the local pastor) is the leader of the cult on earth. In Christian terms he is the one whom Christ left to guide his people visibly on earth. or for protestants they would say that God chose this man to lead us too him.

[quote]Wouldn't the world be in a better place if there weren't Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, and the millions of religions out there? Why not just do what Jesus asked us to do, seek the Father with all our hearts, minds, strength, and soul?[/quote]

As a former Atheist to do what Jesus said is to become Catholic, you have to do ALL of what Jesus said not just one spiritualized passage.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1497615' date='Apr 12 2008, 02:35 AM']I think God should be a friendship and family thing, and you talk about him with friends and family. Whens the last time your family broke open a bible and each of you read a chapter out of it, and then talk about it? Or is that forbidden by the CC?[/quote]
You are assuming a false dichotomy here. My family read the daily readings together every evening, and we also pray together every day.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1497615' date='Apr 12 2008, 02:35 AM']I think there is a subtle balance between organization and independence. You can't have one without the other. Each part of the team is separate, but work in tandum, like how God has made billions of different life forms, but each gives back to each other, and makes all other pieces of life a possibility. But each kind of piece of life goes it alone. Sharks stick with sharks, humans with humans, bears with bears, eagles with eagles, ect, ect, ect. Or why would God have made such an example in the world, if he didn't want us to learn from that example, that God wants people to explore him on their own, and share with others, so that others can be blessed by him and what he has taught others.[/quote]
You again are assuming a false dichotomy that, because we are organised, there is not a division of labour, so to speak. Not all are priests, or deacons, or nuns, or youth ministers. But all work together. You are assuming that, by virtue of being organised, we cannot share this with others. I think you might be surprised at some of the conversations we have, at how much we share our beliefs through our words and actions every day. We don't become drones because we are Catholic, and we don't keep our beliefs hidden from others.

And if we are to learn from nature, as you say, it is important to note that there are hierarchical situations in the animal kingdom, and highly organised groups of animals.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Archaeology cat

[Galloglasses]

[quote]And if we are to learn from nature, as you say, it is important to note that there are hierarchical situations in the animal kingdom, and highly organised groups of animals.[/quote]

For example, Ants, prides of Lions, Shouls of Fish, herds, etc, etc, etc.




For the record Jesusismysuperhero, nearly every one of your questions has already been answered in this thread at least twice.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1497794' date='Apr 12 2008, 07:52 AM']For example, Ants, prides of Lions, Shouls of Fish, herds, etc, etc, etc.
For the record Jesusismysuperhero, nearly every one of your questions has already been answered in this thread at least twice.[/quote]

But none of those has a leader. . .

Why does humanity then need leadership?

[CatholicMax]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1498333' date='Apr 12 2008, 09:01 PM']But none of those has a leader. . .

Why does humanity then need leadership?[/quote]
Let me put it this way.

People need a meeting point. some common starting point. Religion provides that starting point. All religions are organized but they vary on how organized they are. What ever belief you have you hold it because someone of authority was able to present certain facts. If you believe in the bible you dont do so for the bibles sake.

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1498333' date='Apr 12 2008, 09:01 PM']But none of those has a leader. . .

Why does humanity then need leadership?[/quote]

Ants have Queens, Lions have Alpha Males, Humanity is a social creature and not only that, the most sophisticated of all the creatures on earth. We also feel fear, we are also ultimately insecure, we need eachother and if we are to go anywhere, we need leadership. Not everyone has the brass to go out on their own. Most don't, very few of those who are, aren't even honestly able to do it. Why do we not need leadership? What you suggest in that post, in my eyes, is akin to Religious anarchy.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1498564' date='Apr 13 2008, 08:26 PM']Ants have Queens, Lions have Alpha Males, Humanity is a social creature and not only that, the most sophisticated of all the creatures on earth. We also feel fear, we are also ultimately insecure, we need eachother and if we are to go anywhere, we need leadership. Not everyone has the brass to go out on their own. Most don't, very few of those who are, aren't even honestly able to do it. Why do we not need leadership? What you suggest in that post, in my eyes, is akin to Religious anarchy.[/quote]
I have to agree with you (and you beat me to it on the animals having leadership/hierarchies ).

[Mercy me]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1498333' date='Apr 12 2008, 10:01 PM']But none of those has a leader. . .

Why does humanity then need leadership?[/quote]

We as humans are not like the animals on the earth. We do need leaders. Families have leaders, businesses need leaders, social organizations need leaders if anything is to be done. Why should the church be different?

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1498604' date='Apr 13 2008, 03:03 PM']We as humans are not like the animals on the earth. We do need leaders. Families have leaders, businesses need leaders, social organizations need leaders if anything is to be done. Why should the church be different?[/quote]

And that leader should be the father of a household. . .

[scardella]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1499559' date='Apr 14 2008, 08:05 PM']And that leader should be the father of a household. . .[/quote]

Pope, origin: papa aka father, daddy.

The pope is the father of the Catholic Church.

[Mercy me]

Reading through this entire thread it seems to me that you are saying that there is no truth.

There is your version of the truth and my version of the truth and if they disagree that is fine because there is no truth.

But this is wrong. This is how we have 40,000 denominations of Christianity just in the US.

There is a truth and it is bigger than you or me. It seems to me that you are seeking moral relativism rather than the truth. What a cop-out.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1499559' date='Apr 15 2008, 01:05 AM']And that leader should be the father of a household. . .[/quote]
May I ask how you have determined that, out of curiosity?

God bless!

[Galloglasses]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1499559' date='Apr 14 2008, 07:05 PM']And that leader should be the father of a household. . .[/quote]
Well not to sound chuvanistic but..... isn't that, well, the norm human society has developed across the board? Even in sexually equal societies like the ancient celts where women were legally allowed to be anything men could, druids, warriors, cheiftans, tribe leaders and Queens with a capital Q, tradeswomen, they generally just weren't.

Or, if you're talking in terms of why we have a male dominated hierarchy, then this arguement looks likely to reveal that your main disagreement with 'Organised' Religion, is that 'Organised' Religion tends not to have female clergy. Catholicism in particular. So maybe your problem is not scriptural afterall...

[CatholicMax]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1499559' date='Apr 14 2008, 07:05 PM']And that leader should be the father of a household. . .[/quote]
Does God give you visions of himself? Do you hear his voice? When my parents go away they leave me in charge of my brothers. God has done the same thing he has left St. Peter in charge of his brothers and sister.

Now unless you are getting visions from God then your religion is a subjective one. and even if you are getting visions from God how do you know that they are really from God what is your objective measuring stick?