Why Do You Think Organized Religion Is Right?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1508827' date='Apr 24 2008, 08:04 PM']Sorry, I am not debating anymore.

I don't see any organized church that follows Jesus anymore. All of them are supremely arrogant about their beliefs, and will condemn those who don't believe the same thing. I don't say that if you are involved in an organized religion you're going to hell. What gives anybody the right to say, because I don't believe what you believe I should be pitied, looked down upon, and scolded, and ridiculed?

I have been called delusional for goodness sake. Where does someone come off making that kind of judgment?

I feel sorry for all of you, because you are blind, and are not willing to see the light of freedom. By accepting an authority other than God and his word, which is what the CC has done, you bind yourself to men to tell you how to live, men who are only interested in themselves, and not your souls.[/quote]
See I hear the voice of God in my heart and I am Catholic. I accept the authority of God thru His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus founded a church, and THEN his followers wrote a book about it. In that order, church, then book. THe reason we have the New Testament is because of the Catholic Church. So you can start by admitting your indebtedness to the Church. Now if you trust the New Testament then you must trust the Church because IT IS THE CHURCH THAT GUARENTEES THE TESTAMENT.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1508958' date='Apr 24 2008, 07:18 PM']See I hear the voice of God in my heart and I am Catholic. I accept the authority of God thru His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus founded a church, and THEN his followers wrote a book about it. In that order, church, then book. THe reason we have the New Testament is because of the Catholic Church. So you can start by admitting your indebtedness to the Church. Now if you trust the New Testament then you must trust the Church because IT IS THE CHURCH THAT GUARENTEES THE TESTAMENT.[/quote]

I am thankful of people who choose the books, but that happened way before Constantine organized it.

There is one thing you have to realize. Just because something has made something, doesn't mean the leaders of that organization follow it.

Like the US right now. Habeas Corpus was gaureenteed by the constitution, but now - if you were a turban, that doesn't apply to you anymore. . .

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1509045' date='Apr 24 2008, 08:07 PM']I am thankful of people who choose the books, but that happened way before Constantine organized it.

There is one thing you have to realize. Just because something has made something, doesn't mean the leaders of that organization follow it.

Like the US right now. Habeas Corpus was gaureenteed by the constitution, but now - if you were a turban, that doesn't apply to you anymore. . .[/quote]

All and all since you have been here I have not see much or any evidence given to back up your claims, you mostly speak in generalities, never really respond, and change the subject to something off topic... you have used a bit of scripture, but when someone responds to you with scripture you respond with silence, or claim we do not have the spirit to know scripture. For that I have asked do you believe you are infallible when it comes to scripture? How could you otherwise say we do not have the spirit to know the truth of scripture?


And is truth relative?

Edited April 25, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[scardella]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1508827' date='Apr 24 2008, 07:04 PM']I don't see any organized church that follows Jesus anymore. All of them are supremely arrogant about their beliefs, and will condemn those who don't believe the same thing. I don't say that if you are involved in an organized religion you're going to hell. What gives anybody the right to say, because I don't believe what you believe I should be pitied, looked down upon, and scolded, and ridiculed?[/quote]

We're not aggravated at [b]what[/b] you believe. We're aggravated that, as far as we can tell, you are simply ignoring what we say, and when evidence is provided to back up what we say, you dismiss it summarily. Behavior like that shows complete disrespect for us and our beliefs.

[quote]I have been called delusional for goodness sake. Where does someone come off making that kind of judgment?

I feel sorry for all of you, because you are blind, and are not willing to see the light of freedom. By accepting an authority other than God and his word, which is what the CC has done, you bind yourself to men to tell you how to live, men who are only interested in themselves, and not your souls.[/quote]

Read those two paragraphs back-to-back. Then have a friend who hasn't been involved with this read it. You are doing the exact same thing you're condemning.

Edited April 25, 2008 by scardella

[Deb]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1508827' date='Apr 24 2008, 07:04 PM']Sorry, I am not debating anymore.

I don't see any organized church that follows Jesus anymore. All of them are supremely arrogant about their beliefs, and will condemn those who don't believe the same thing. I don't say that if you are involved in an organized religion you're going to hell. What gives anybody the right to say, because I don't believe what you believe I should be pitied, looked down upon, and scolded, and ridiculed?

I have been called delusional for goodness sake. Where does someone come off making that kind of judgment?

I feel sorry for all of you, because you are blind, and are not willing to see the light of freedom. By accepting an authority other than God and his word, which is what the CC has done, you bind yourself to men to tell you how to live, men who are only interested in themselves, and not your souls.[/quote]

I think you don't see because you are not opening your mind. I certainly don't condemn anyone to hell for any reason. I am not God. I cannot discern what criteria the Lord will use at the final hour of us all.
I know that for thirty five years without the church I went nowhere in faith nor even in living a sinless life. I know that a year ago the Lord led me to him and it took him about six months after that to get me fully into the Catholic Church. The minute I made that committment, he has showered me with blessings and opened up my eyes to the truth of his word. I know that the church I belong to is filled with people who don't go to church on Sunday and then walk the path of the secular world the other six days. I know they live God every day, they homeschool their children, they give their gifts to the church and the community. They drew me in, embraced me and have shown me more love than I thought possible from a group of people I didn't know six months ago. They have become my family, a family of God's children brought together in faith and in the Church.

I know the sacraments build me up and strengthen me and change me in a way that is astounding to everyone around me and especially to me. I know that my priest is so close to God and so holy that I can see it in him. Mass is not just a boring bunch of words but a celebration of mystery and glory that expands my heart with love and devotion. When the bread and wine are transformed, I feel it in every cell of my body. I get to experience this every day if I want and with my family of worshipers around me.

I applaud you for your obvious love of our Lord. I do wish that you could know the beauty of the Catholic Church as I wish that for so many others that I know and love, that includes members of my immediate family. There is such a richness that is missed when you do not know the glory of the sacraments. I see this constantly in my friends who belong to churches of other faiths. They dont' understand when I talk about the living presence, so strong in the Eucharist that it brings me to my knees. They think I am delusional too.

I can't debate my feelings. I can say I KNOW that God exists and that I KNOW he created and gave us the Catholic Church and that I KNOW it is my path to salvation to follow all my Lord asked of me in the church but, I can't prove anything to anyone. What I KNOW is a gift from God and he chose me for some reason and gave that gift to me. I will spread the word of his love and glory and truth and his church because that is my obligation to him.

I KNOW that if I lost my right to the sacraments, I would truly die, from the inside out. The church gave me that. I didn't get it from a book or a class or anything other than what comes from the Catholic Church and my Priest.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1509045' date='Apr 24 2008, 10:07 PM']I am thankful of people who choose the books, but that happened way before Constantine organized it.

There is one thing you have to realize. Just because something has made something, doesn't mean the leaders of that organization follow it.

Like the US right now. Habeas Corpus was gaureenteed by the constitution, but now - if you were a turban, that doesn't apply to you anymore. . .[/quote]
Constantine legalized it, which is not quite the same thing. I suggest you read the early church fathers.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Deb' post='1509496' date='Apr 25 2008, 01:04 PM']I think you don't see because you are not opening your mind. I certainly don't condemn anyone to hell for any reason. I am not God. I cannot discern what criteria the Lord will use at the final hour of us all.
I know that for thirty five years without the church I went nowhere in faith nor even in living a sinless life. I know that a year ago the Lord led me to him and it took him about six months after that to get me fully into the Catholic Church. The minute I made that committment, he has showered me with blessings and opened up my eyes to the truth of his word. I know that the church I belong to is filled with people who don't go to church on Sunday and then walk the path of the secular world the other six days. I know they live God every day, they homeschool their children, they give their gifts to the church and the community. They drew me in, embraced me and have shown me more love than I thought possible from a group of people I didn't know six months ago. They have become my family, a family of God's children brought together in faith and in the Church.

I know the sacraments build me up and strengthen me and change me in a way that is astounding to everyone around me and especially to me. I know that my priest is so close to God and so holy that I can see it in him. Mass is not just a boring bunch of words but a celebration of mystery and glory that expands my heart with love and devotion. When the bread and wine are transformed, I feel it in every cell of my body. I get to experience this every day if I want and with my family of worshipers around me.

I applaud you for your obvious love of our Lord. I do wish that you could know the beauty of the Catholic Church as I wish that for so many others that I know and love, that includes members of my immediate family. There is such a richness that is missed when you do not know the glory of the sacraments. I see this constantly in my friends who belong to churches of other faiths. They dont' understand when I talk about the living presence, so strong in the Eucharist that it brings me to my knees. They think I am delusional too.

I can't debate my feelings. I can say I KNOW that God exists and that I KNOW he created and gave us the Catholic Church and that I KNOW it is my path to salvation to follow all my Lord asked of me in the church but, I can't prove anything to anyone. What I KNOW is a gift from God and he chose me for some reason and gave that gift to me. I will spread the word of his love and glory and truth and his church because that is my obligation to him.

I KNOW that if I lost my right to the sacraments, I would truly die, from the inside out. The church gave me that. I didn't get it from a book or a class or anything other than what comes from the Catholic Church and my Priest.[/quote]
Te Deum!