Why Do You Think Organized Religion Is Right?

[Galloglasses]

Not to sound defeatist, or cynical, or tired but seriously; Why are we still bothering?

Thats a question i keep asking myself when I look at this thread, but we must soldier on if jesusismysuperhero really wants us to answer her.

[Deb]

Because anything that may lead anyone to the truth of our Lord, Christ Jesus, is worth the effort.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Deb' post='1504444' date='Apr 20 2008, 04:09 PM']Because anything that may lead anyone to the truth of our Lord, Christ Jesus, is worth the effort.[/quote]

I already know him and his truth. You are pretty arrogant to think anybody really knows 100 per cent of our Lord.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1504092' date='Apr 20 2008, 10:28 AM']Not to sound defeatist, or cynical, or tired but seriously; Why are we still bothering?

Thats a question i keep asking myself when I look at this thread, but we must soldier on if jesusismysuperhero really wants us to answer her.[/quote]

Because my enemies don't like being challenged. They would continue to post against this from now until the end of time. Once evil has people in it's grasp, it doesn't like people who will be bold enough to say, you don't have to be involved in an oppressive system anymore. You are now seeing the true nature of evil, and I don't really focus on any of these posts, because it all goes to show that people who hate (don't hate, appreciate) freedom will post against it for all time. The more organized something is, the more it tries to subejucate the people under those who have more power. There are people posting up who people should really not trust. This is an internet forum. How much do you know the person typing on the other side of the keyboard?

Alas, that was how the felt about Jesus and the Prophets as well. I am just as despised as my Lord, as he promised me.

The only thing you need to do is love God with all your heart, all of your mind, and all of your heart, and to trust in his sacrifice by sending his son to the earth so that we imperfect sinners could have access to the father through the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ.

Any organization that has encyclopedias about their beliefs should be questioned. If God was truly involved in it, why would there be hundreds, even thousands of pages of what each person needs to believe and why they should believe it - i.e. the Catechism everybody is posting. That doesn't sound like the simplistic faith of Jesus. It sounds more like vain philosophies to me.

God doesn't need an encyclopedia to teach anybody. All he needs is a person willing to teach someone about his son. Where did that go to?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504716' date='Apr 20 2008, 10:20 PM']I already know him and his truth. You are pretty arrogant to think anybody really knows 100 per cent of our Lord.[/quote]

The Catholic Church knows 100% of what is knowable. At least that's what the Scriptures say and all the first Christians believed....

[b]1 Tim 3:15[/b]
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is[b] the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth[/b].


[b]John 14:16 [/b]
[color="#8B0000"]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, [/color]
[b]17 [/b][color="#8B0000"]the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.[/color]
[b]18 [/b][color="#8B0000"]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.[/color]
...
[b]26 [/b][color="#8B0000"]The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name--[b][u]he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you[/u][/b]. [/color]


[b]Pope Clement I[/b]
"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]).

[b]Ignatius of Antioch[/b]
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

[b]Irenaeus[/b]
"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3:3:2).


Also, please see my first post on this thread... [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=78357&view=findpost&p=1503641"]Post #128[/url]


God Bless,
ironmonk

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1503884' date='Apr 20 2008, 12:25 AM']That is not quite right. I struggle daily with my sinful nature and I am not alone. St. Paul spoke about this eloquently in Romans 7. His struggle has often given me hope. I particularly like Romans 7:15-19[/quote]

The scriptures you post is why we are reborn, and show Paul was reborn.

Before we are born again, we just sin, and we enjoy the sins we are involved in. But when we really repent, and truly want to change, God changes us, and then we hate (don't hate, appreciate) the sins we commit.

I prefer this translation

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate (don't hate, appreciate), that do I.

If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Now, before you say, we all hate (don't hate, appreciate) sinning. No we don't. Ask some who has done Cocaine for the first time? Did you like it, or hate (don't hate, appreciate) it, and he will say, I liked it. Ask someone who had sex for the first time with someone out of wedlock? They'd say they liked it, and then tell you not to give them a sermon.

You see, when we are born again, we start hating that part of ourselves, and we are going against the sin nature.

To the people who say we are in god's image, so he wouldn't change human nature, the fact we are fallen means we are not what we are intended to be, and the only way is to hate (don't hate, appreciate) the evil inside us through repentance, and saying, I hate (don't hate, appreciate) it so much, I don't want to do it anymore, because I want to live totally for you.

Human nature's ultimate goal is humanism, and that says there is no God, and its just about us.

Nuff said.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1504748' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:36 PM']The Catholic Church knows 100% of what is knowable. At least that's what the Scriptures say and all the first Christians believed....

[b]1 Tim 3:15[/b]
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is[b] the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth[/b].
[b]John 14:16 [/b]
[color="#8B0000"]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, [/color]
[b]17 [/b][color="#8B0000"]the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.[/color]
[b]18 [/b][color="#8B0000"]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.[/color]
...
[b]26 [/b][color="#8B0000"]The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name--[b][u]he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you[/u][/b]. [/color]
[b]Pope Clement I[/b]
"Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]).

[b]Ignatius of Antioch[/b]
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

[b]Irenaeus[/b]
"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about" (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3:3:2).
Also, please see my first post on this thread... [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=78357&view=findpost&p=1503641"]Post #128[/url]
God Bless,
ironmonk[/quote]

Anybody who says they know 100 per cent of anything have already shown they are lost. The greatest minds say, I know nothing. Then they would continue to search, and search, and search, to learn the unlearnable.

If your religion thinks it knows 100 per cent of God, so does everybody elses. Seems like there are thousands of religions saying they know 100 per cent of God, and all others are wrong. So, if you know 100 per cent of what is knowable of God, who is the whiterider?

[KnightofChrist]

But the Catholic Church knows only a 100% [b]of what is knowable[/b].

Edited April 21, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[Socrates]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504740' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:31 PM']Because my enemies don't like being challenged. They would continue to post against this from now until the end of time. Once evil has people in it's grasp, it doesn't like people who will be bold enough to say, you don't have to be involved in an oppressive system anymore. You are now seeing the true nature of evil, and I don't really focus on any of these posts, because it all goes to show that people who hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) freedom will post against it for all time. The more organized something is, the more it tries to subejucate the people under those who have more power. There are people posting up who people should really not trust. This is an internet forum. How much do you know the person typing on the other side of the keyboard?

Alas, that was how the felt about Jesus and the Prophets as well. I am just as despised as my Lord, as he promised me.

The only thing you need to do is love God with all your heart, all of your mind, and all of your heart, and to trust in his sacrifice by sending his son to the earth so that we imperfect sinners could have access to the father through the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ.

Any organization that has encyclopedias about their beliefs should be questioned. If God was truly involved in it, why would there be hundreds, even thousands of pages of what each person needs to believe and why they should believe it - i.e. the Catechism everybody is posting. That doesn't sound like the simplistic faith of Jesus. It sounds more like vain philosophies to me.

God doesn't need an encyclopedia to teach anybody. All he needs is a person willing to teach someone about his son. Where did that go to?[/quote]
With all due respect, there's really nothing "challenging" about your posts here. You seem to merely spout off your own opinions, and ignore the many refutations people have been making here.
It seems you have repeatedly ignored the Bible verses which have been posted on here regarding how Christ founded a Church, beginning with Matthew 16:18-19:
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my [b]church[/b], and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."

It's seems you're the one who doesn't like being challenged.
Christ Himself said He would build a Church. Personally, I'll trust Christ's words over your personal opinions.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1504768' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:49 PM']With all due respect, there's really nothing "challenging" about your posts here. You seem to merely spout off your own opinions, and ignore the many refutations people have been making here.
It seems you have repeatedly ignored the Bible verses which have been posted on here regarding how Christ founded a Church, beginning with Matthew 16:18-19:
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my [b]church[/b], and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."

It's seems you're the one who doesn't like being challenged.
Christ Himself said He would build a Church. Personally, I'll trust Christ's words over your personal opinions.[/quote]

I am part of the church.

I can personally say, I have seen the fulfillment of the scripture that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church. One day, I will tell everybody here what happened on December 27th, 2007, though this is not the time and place for that.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1504768' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:49 PM']With all due respect, there's really nothing "challenging" about your posts here. You seem to merely spout off your own opinions, and ignore the many refutations people have been making here.
It seems you have repeatedly ignored the Bible verses which have been posted on here regarding how Christ founded a Church, beginning with Matthew 16:18-19:
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my [b]church[/b], and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."

It's seems you're the one who doesn't like being challenged.
Christ Himself said He would build a Church. Personally, I'll trust Christ's words over your personal opinions.[/quote]

Are you declaring yourself my enemy Socrates?

I ignore posts about scriptures, because most of you don't have the spirit to understand them. The spirit leads you into all truth, and will reveal the true ideas of scripture.

The fact, your post seems more like a personal attack means you don't like being exposed.

People who rely on other people to tell them about God are lost. God will show them. All he needs is someone to start the process along, sharing with people who God is, and those people will share with others to show who God is, and those people, and those people, and those people, and that is how 120 people in an upper room can make disciples of hundreds of thousands in twenty years.

Edited April 21, 2008 by JesusIsMySuperHero

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1504762' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:46 PM']But the Catholic Church knows only a 100% [b]of what is knowable[/b].[/quote]

Wouldn't the white rider know he's the white rider?

Wouldn't the two witnesses know who they were?

There are things meant for specific people, like Enoch and Elijha, who might be the two witnesses, and those for the masses.

I believe the white rider knows who he is, and is working right now. He's not me, of course, but I believe the white rider knows who he is, and I believe the anti-christ knows who he is too. I believe the whore of Babylon knows who she is as well. All these people know who they are, and they are working for our benefit, or determent right now.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504740' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:31 PM']Because my enemies don't like being challenged. They would continue to post against this from now until the end of time.[/quote]

Perhaps it means nothing to you but since I have known of your existence, I have prayed for you. I do not believe you to be my enemy.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504740' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:31 PM']Once evil has people in it's grasp, it doesn't like people who will be bold enough to say, you don't have to be involved in an oppressive system anymore. You are now seeing the true nature of evil, and I don't really focus on any of these posts, because it all goes to show that people who hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate) (don't hate (don't hate, appreciate), appreciate), appreciate) freedom will post against it for all time.[/quote]

Do you claim to know and judge the hearts and minds of your fellow man? It may sound a bit childish but your mean. I love you JSMSH! Because Christ lives in me, though I am a sinner. You should not so easily give up on your fellow man because one, it is your duty as a christian to do all you can to help save them from the fires of hell, and second, perhaps you are wrong and need to open your eyes so that you avoid the fires of hell yourself.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504740' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:31 PM']The more organized something is, the more it tries to subejucate the people under those who have more power. There are people posting up who people should really not trust. This is an internet forum. How much do you know the person typing on the other side of the keyboard?[/quote]

We are only truly free when we believe in truth. Such an example would be a certian man told a story once of when he was a child he believe H20 was some sort of secret agent. Only when he got to school and learned h20 was water was he free in the thought of what h20 was. The more disorganized a thing is the more confused it is, and the devil is the father of confusion. There is but one God, one Church, and one Baptism. The One Church is the Bride, and body of Jesus Christ. Should we not subjugate ourselves under the power of Christ?

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504740' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:31 PM']Alas, that was how the felt about Jesus and the Prophets as well. I am just as despised as my Lord, as he promised me.

The only thing you need to do is love God with all your heart, all of your mind, and all of your heart, and to trust in his sacrifice by sending his son to the earth so that we imperfect sinners could have access to the father through the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Catholic's loyal to the Church's teaching do indeed Love God with all our hearts, all of our minds, and trust in His sacrifice, and the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504740' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:31 PM']Any organization that has encyclopedias about their beliefs should be questioned. If God was truly involved in it, why would there be hundreds, even thousands of pages of what each person needs to believe and why they should believe it - i.e. the Catechism everybody is posting. That doesn't sound like the simplistic faith of Jesus. It sounds more like vain philosophies to me.[/quote]

Again, God is order, and the devil is disorder. The Church has lived for over some 2,000 years, many questions and heresies have risen. Such as is Christ truly God? What books of the Holy Bible come from God? And many more, the Church has answered those questions and so those answers will not be lost wisely wrote them down.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504740' date='Apr 20 2008, 08:31 PM']God doesn't need an encyclopedia to teach anybody. All he needs is a person willing to teach someone about his son. Where did that go to?[/quote]

Indeed He does have an encyclopedia of sorts it is the Holy Bible, which the Church guided by God, the Holy Spirit brought together and wrote.

Edited April 21, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[KnightofChrist]

Wouldn't the Bride of Christ know who she is?

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504847' date='Apr 20 2008, 09:13 PM']Wouldn't the white rider know he's the white rider?[/quote]

[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73006.htm"]"White horse"... He that sitteth on the white horse is Christ, going forth to subdue the world by his gospel. The other horses that follow represent the judgments and punishment that were to fall on the enemies of Christ and his church. The red horse signifies war; the black horse, famine; and the pale horse (which has Death for its rider), plagues or pestilence.[/url]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504847' date='Apr 20 2008, 09:13 PM']Wouldn't the two witnesses know who they were?

There are things meant for specific people, like Enoch and Elijha, who might be the two witnesses, and those for the masses.[/quote]

Indeed, they may be.

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504847' date='Apr 20 2008, 09:13 PM']I believe the white rider knows who he is, and is working right now. He's not me, of course, but I believe the white rider knows who he is,[/quote]

I believe the white rider is Jesus Christ.


[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504847' date='Apr 20 2008, 09:13 PM']and I believe the anti-christ knows who he is too.[/quote]

[url="http://www.conventhill.com/endtimes/newman1.htm"]The Times of Antichrist[/url]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504847' date='Apr 20 2008, 09:13 PM']I believe the whore of Babylon knows who she is as well.[/quote]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Whore_of_Babylon.asp"]The Whore of Babylon[/url]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1504847' date='Apr 20 2008, 09:13 PM']All these people know who they are, and they are working for our benefit, or determent right now.[/quote]

Everything works to the will of Almighty God.

Edited April 21, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[Holly3278]

Because Jesus Himself created an organized religion, the Catholic Church.