Dating/courtships And Physical Touch

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1521225' date='May 7 2008, 08:00 AM']And you know this how?

You are forgetting that at ANY stage in life, we are still physical AND spiritual beings. We need to take care of our physical side just as much as the spiritual side.[/quote]

this is the 3rd page and i guess i'm not being specific enough so i apologize for that. i will try my best once more.

-a baby needs touch in order to grow properly. a baby can even possibly die without touch. this is scientifically proven, and displayed in hospitals, nursing homes (especially handicapped ones), orphanages, etc.

-an adult (who is already grown) does not need touch in order to function properly. an adult will not die or develop a negative condition if not touched. this is best displayed by the hundreds of thousands of monks and nuns from religions from all over the world, for thousands of years. i don't know of any concrete scientific studies or even writings indicating an absolute need of touch for an adult.

an adult can be emotionally uplifted with touch. studies show positive effects of touch, but they do not indicate a negative or positive effect due to the repression of touch, probably because there hasn't been enough studies on it. it would probably be a difficult study to even conduct since it would take many lifetimes of observance before coming to a conclusion.


=========

i think the new theory being presented is that any deficiency that is in serious need of touch (for an adult) can be fulfilled with God. unfortunately many of us are not at the spiritual level of a monk, nun, or hermit in total seclusion, so we need a more tangible form of intimacy.


hugs are good! almost all of us can benefit from a hug or a pat on the back now and then, but nothing compares to the hug of God, because His grace is more than enough.

[missionseeker]

monks and nuns get hugs too!! even the cloistered ones! Haven't you ever seen one the brochure things or a newsletter?

[Deb]

Oh, I get ya. I definitely think that we all have to have some physical contact. I give and receive lots of hugs. I really don't think much about that because I am a toucher and a hugger. I only hugged my priest once and I asked permission first. There are other priests that give me super Jesus hugs. I don't think I have any friends or family that doesn't hug when you get together. Maybe that comes as you get older cuz I wasn't like that when I was younger. At least our family wasn't but, they are now.

[Alycin]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1521382' date='May 7 2008, 01:48 PM']this is the 3rd page and i guess i'm not being specific enough so i apologize for that. i will try my best once more.

-a baby needs touch in order to grow properly. a baby can even possibly die without touch. this is scientifically proven, and displayed in hospitals, nursing homes (especially handicapped ones), orphanages, etc.

-an adult (who is already grown) does not need touch in order to function properly. an adult will not die or develop a negative condition if not touched. this is best displayed by the hundreds of thousands of monks and nuns from religions from all over the world, for thousands of years. i don't know of any concrete scientific studies or even writings indicating an absolute need of touch for an adult.

an adult can be emotionally uplifted with touch. studies show positive effects of touch, but they do not indicate a negative or positive effect due to the repression of touch, probably because there hasn't been enough studies on it. it would probably be a difficult study to even conduct since it would take many lifetimes of observance before coming to a conclusion.
=========[/quote]

You cannot make a definitive statement like you did, "adults don't NEED touch" when you, several sentences later, admit that no studies have been done (or at least not enough studies have been done) to prove or disprove that opinion either way.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1522128' date='May 8 2008, 12:35 PM']You cannot make a definitive statement like you did, "adults don't NEED touch" when you, several sentences later, admit that no studies have been done (or at least not enough studies have been done) to prove or disprove that opinion either way.[/quote]
There have been a few studies showing that a hug in the morning can reduce stress and lower blood pressure throughout the day, even when stressful situations arise. The benefit has been shown to be greater for women than men, but it is helpful for both. I can't find the most recent article I read about this, but [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4131508.stm"]here's an older one[/url].

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

I'm going with Paul on this

[quote]Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.[/quote]

If you can't keep yourself from wanting to embrace your better half, than get married. It is better to marry as fast as possible if you can't contain yourself than to burn!

[CatherineM]

My husband read somewhere that men who kiss their wives when leaving in the morning live longer. He never forgets.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1522848' date='May 8 2008, 10:21 PM']I'm going with Paul on this
If you can't keep yourself from wanting to embrace your better half, than get married. It is better to marry as fast as possible if you can't contain yourself than to burn![/quote]


a hug is NOT fornication.

[Alycin]

[quote name='JesusIsMySuperHero' post='1522848' date='May 8 2008, 11:21 PM']I'm going with Paul on this
If you can't keep yourself from wanting to embrace your better half, than get married. It is better to marry as fast as possible if you can't contain yourself than to burn![/quote]

Your posts always manage to make me LOL.

Thanks for that. Laughter is the 2nd best medicine.

Hugs are the 1st.

[JesusIsMySuperHero]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1522866' date='May 8 2008, 10:38 PM']a hug is NOT fornication.[/quote]
I wasn't talking about hugs. . .

[missionseeker]

I think healthy touches are good for a relationship.

I can understand wanting to save kisses for marriage and think it admirable, to an extent.

HOWEVER, if the problem is no touches because it leads to fornication... then... then there is a problem. A problem rooted in a misunderstanding of human relations and sexuality.

Our sexuality is a means to our salvation. Sex is not bad. But it is only good in its proper place. As my philosophy professor says "at the right time, in the right place, with the right person for the right reason". If you cannot hold someone's hand without thinking about sex, then you have a problem. If you are afraid that by hugging someone, then you are sinning, then step back and think about it. The physicality begins while friends and finds its culmination in marriage. As friends, guys and girls generally exchange hugs (and sometimes kisses). Why is it ok as friends and not ok as a couple? No, just like friendship is deepened when a relationship moves beyond friendship, so too does the physical aspect. As the souls become closer, so do the bodies. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT FORNICATION IS OK. THIS IS JUST TO SAY THAT THE HUGS (AND KISSES) BECOME MORE INTIMATE AND EXCLUSIVE. We [i]are[/i] spiritual AND physical beings and our relations with others mirror that.

There is NOTHING wrong with an intimate kiss in an inimate relationship.

If you can't restrain your desires, then you are treating your partner as an object, not a person. That's YOUR problem, not theirs. Not a universal problem for the law is no touching until marriage.


Seriously, if touching is that big of a deal for a guy, why would you want to date him?
If he can't hug or kiss you without thinking about sex, then he doesn't REALLY love you and he's treating you as a sexual object.

[jeffpugh]

Well, there it is. /thread.

[Deb]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1522866' date='May 8 2008, 11:38 PM']a hug is NOT fornication.[/quote]


Depends on how long you have been married.

[cmotherofpirl]

[color="#FF0000"]Hugs should be a part of everyones day!
We even have a sacrament that involves human touch![/color]

The Importance of Safe Touch in the Healing Process
Author: Pamela Perez
Published on: Apr 1, 2005
Over the next few weeks I'll be publishing this next article on the importance of safe touch. Because it is lengthy, and a bit more technical, I'll be breaking it up into three parts. I hope it will be helpful and equipping, as well as something you will be able to share with your therapists, support people, doctors, and family members. As always, I hope you'll ask questions, send comments, let me know if this is helpful for you or not, whatever!

The Importance of Safe Touch in the Healing Process

"Touch is one of the most essential elements of human development, a profound method of communication, a critical component of the health and growth… and a powerful healing force" (Zur, 2004).

Touch can bring some of life’s most enjoyable experiences, “and some of its most aggravating,” say Bear, Connors and Paradiso (2001). “Somatic sensation enables the body to feel, to ache, to chill, and to know what its parts are doing. It is sensitive to many kinds of stimuli… including temperature, pain, and body position.” Touch, as we will see in this article, communicates other things to us, as well, and on other levels that may come as a surprise to some of us.

A little on anatomy first here, though, and a bit of terminology for those of you who aren’t familiar with some of the terms we’ll be using in this article. You’ll note the word, “tactile” used later on, which simply refers to something tangible or physical. Touch begins at the “dermis,” the skin, which is the largest “sensory” (this word means, pertaining to sense organs; sensation) organ we have. Throughout the skin are distributed tiny “receptors” (a receptor is a specialized structure that is sensitive to certain types of “stimuli” or change in physical energy) all throughout the body. It is through the skin, through touch, that the newborn first learns about its world and draws conclusions about that world, whether it is a safe place, or a hostile one (Leboyer, 1975; Wilson, 1982). Obviously, touch serves an essential purpose! Hunter & Struve (2001) tell us “these patterns will create a template by which subsequent interpersonal relationships will be formed.” How, then, are we to see the awful effects that abuse has left on the wounded reversed unless we can ourselves see what an essential part reassuring, caring touch plays in our lives?

Touch has become another great taboo. The research, if we can find it, will show us that we are a people literally starving for safe, healthy, healing physical touch. For those who can afford it, a minimum of a dollar per minute to oh-so-much-more will be spent for the comfort of a soothing touch. We pay the massage therapist at the chiropractor’s, the spa, the salon, or even the mechanical chair on display at the mall if that’s what it takes. Even our children are starving from a lack of touch. Because in our society so much in our attitudes about touch has become sexualized, we place more and more restrictions on the use of physical touch (Hunter & Struve, 1998). We are, of course, referring to touch from parents here. Because touch has become (unfortunately, all too often necessarily so) something we have had to teach our children not to allow anyone else to “do” without becoming highly suspicious, anyone who would “touch” too much is immediately suspect. Further, once our children reach adolescence touch for them also becomes taboo. Hunter & Struve make this statement:

By the time American children reach adolescence, few, if any, socially sanctioned opportunities for physical contact remain that do not carry the burden of double meaning, whereby any touch becomes subject to interpretation or misinterpretation as a sexual overture. Most channels for physical contact become plagued with sexual connotations once children enter puberty.

This is a sad state of affairs, because touch at any age is vital on several levels. First, it is just one of many non-verbal forms of communication. It can express comfort, sympathy, concern, support, understanding, and give one a sense of being heard, often in ways that words cannot. It can convey empathy, respect, connection, and when applied carefully and appropriately with those who struggle (we are including those whose struggle is in the area of dissociation here, in particular) provide a source of grounding, as well as an aid and outlet for emotional release. Done with respect, care, and consideration, this can be one of the greatest means to healing.

In an article by Carolynne Stevens on the NARA website (referenced below), the restorative impact of healing touch is discussed. “Touch has the first, most direct and powerful effect on the brain’s programming and re-programming activity. When we think of all the ways tactile stimulation relates to verbal/cognitive and physical involvement… it is no accident that so much of restorative therapy is built around using familiar tactile work and leisure activities to develop or repair brain functions.” How true! We have an essential human need for “tactile connection” according to Stevens, for human touch, in order for emotional and mental development and well-being to be achieved. “Sometimes even for the will to live,” say Stevens.

References:

Bear, M., Connors, B. & Paradiso, M. (2001). Neuroscience; exploring the brain. Second Edition

Baltimore, MD; Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. Hunter, M. & Struve, J. (1998). The ethical use of touch in psychotherapy. Thousand Oaks, CA; Sage Publications.

Montagu, A. (1971). Touching; The human significance of the skin. New York; Columbia University Press.

Perez, P. (2004). A short introduction to memory processes, part 1. [url="http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/DID/"]http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/DID/[/url]... A short introduction to memory processes, part II. [url="http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/DID/"]http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/DID/[/url]... Somatic memory/Body memories. [url="http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/DID/"]http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/DID/[/url]...

Stevens, C. (1996). The caring touch. [url="http://www.nara-licensing.org/index.html"]http://www.nara-licensing.org/index.html[/url]

1 Zur, O. & Nordmarken, N. (2004). To touch or not to touch: Rethinking the prohibition on touch in psychotherapy and counseling. [url="http://www.drozur.com/touchintherapy.html"]http://www.drozur.com/touchintherapy.html[/url]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1522901' date='May 8 2008, 10:05 PM']I think healthy touches are good for a relationship.

I can understand wanting to save kisses for marriage and think it admirable, to an extent.

HOWEVER, if the problem is no touches because it leads to fornication... then... then there is a problem. A problem rooted in a misunderstanding of human relations and sexuality.

Our sexuality is a means to our salvation. Sex is not bad. But it is only good in its proper place. As my philosophy professor says "at the right time, in the right place, with the right person for the right reason". If you cannot hold someone's hand without thinking about sex, then you have a problem. If you are afraid that by hugging someone, then you are sinning, then step back and think about it. The physicality begins while friends and finds its culmination in marriage. As friends, guys and girls generally exchange hugs (and sometimes kisses). Why is it ok as friends and not ok as a couple? No, just like friendship is deepened when a relationship moves beyond friendship, so too does the physical aspect. As the souls become closer, so do the bodies. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT FORNICATION IS OK. THIS IS JUST TO SAY THAT THE HUGS (AND KISSES) BECOME MORE INTIMATE AND EXCLUSIVE. We [i]are[/i] spiritual AND physical beings and our relations with others mirror that.

There is NOTHING wrong with an intimate kiss in an inimate relationship.

If you can't restrain your desires, then you are treating your partner as an object, not a person. That's YOUR problem, not theirs. Not a universal problem for the law is no touching until marriage.
Seriously, if touching is that big of a deal for a guy, why would you want to date him?
If he can't hug or kiss you without thinking about sex, then he doesn't REALLY love you and he's treating you as a sexual object.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
awesome post.