Dating/courtships And Physical Touch

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='23 December 2009 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1261621195' post='2025345']A little late on the uptake...[/quote]
what's your point? i hate responding to polls because every time i think there's a new response, it's just someone new taking the poll

[quote name='missionseeker' date='23 December 2009 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1261624808' post='2025373'] But I find the idea that distance makes the hormones turn into "raging barbaric fiends" as a little odd. I mean, sure it's an issue. But I think it's an issue for all relationships, not just long distance relationships. But the key is to remember the other person, you know? I don't want to be an obstacle for him. And despite however much I might *want* to keep kissing him, I know that not only do *I* have to keep myself chaste, but I want to make sure that I don't wreck his chastity either. Cuz there really is nothing better than kneeling at the communion rail beside him.
[/quote]
well, this is just a married person's perspective, but umm, after 3 months of missing my husband, you do miss the intimate part of your marriage and it is kinda hard to control your passions.

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='26 December 2009 - 12:31 PM' timestamp='1261855918' post='2026287']
Thanks for sharing, Kayla! Glad you are strong

So... what is an OB/GYN and what's that entail?
[/quote]
obstetrician/gynecologist. http://www.womenshealthchannel.com/obgyn.shtml

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='26 December 2009 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1261857309' post='2026299']


well, this is just a married person's perspective, but umm, after 3 months of missing my husband, you do miss the intimate part of your marriage and it is kinda hard to control your passions.
[/quote]

TBH, you are married and know EXACTLY what you are missing for those three months.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='22 December 2009 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1261519206' post='2024659']
I'd say that when a couple first begins seeing each other that they should discuss this topic of boundaries.
[/quote]
I'm very glad my husband brought it up on our first date.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='26 December 2009 - 07:55 PM' timestamp='1261857309' post='2026299']
well, this is just a married person's perspective, but umm, after 3 months of missing my husband, you do miss the intimate part of your marriage and it is kinda hard to control your passions.
[/quote]
And having been in a long-distance dating relationship with my now-husband, I will say that it is difficult to restrain/control your passions in the times you are together. While we talked about boundaries some (as I mentioned in my other post), we probably (OK, definitely) should've talked about it more than we did.

[organwerke]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='25 December 2009 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1261771026' post='2025974']
I wonder how many of this forum's members, who are unmarried, are being honest in their replies.

I also wonder how many of this forum's members, who are unmarried, are virgins, both men and women, since so many of you don't think that sex before marriage is permissible. Reading some of these replies made me think about the 1950s, and the Sixties film "Carnal Knowledge". I'm old enough to remember marathon dorm discussions about whether a girl who French-kissed on the first date was "fast" or not.

Given my professional experience in OB/GYN for the past 40 years, you are all either very odd or dishonest, but after all, who's counting?
[/quote]

Actually, Antigonos' post could seem a bit uncharitable.
But, sorry, I don't think Antigonos intended to be offensive, but probably he was quite surprised reading some answers.
Well, first of all, I have to say that I really hate this kind of polls!
I can simply say that I agree with the Church's Theachings on this matter, that I think chastity is a beautiful virtue and that's all. Then, I think that it is quite normal that, if two persons are engaged, they feel very attracted each other. Of course we have to win the temptations and this certainly strenghten the relationship itself.
But, returning to Antigonos, I understand his point since I know many persons who call themselves Catholic and still are really "liberal" on this matter, and this is a very bad things but yes it is true that many catholics persons aren't honest in this.
I think he thought of this in his post, and so when he said "you are odd" he probably intended this in a positive way.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='organwerke' date='27 December 2009 - 07:16 AM' timestamp='1261919760' post='2026525']
Actually, Antigonos' post could seem a bit uncharitable.
But, sorry, I don't think Antigonos intended to be offensive, but probably he was quite surprised reading some answers.
Well, first of all, I have to say that I really hate this kind of polls!
I can simply say that I agree with the Church's Theachings on this matter, that I think chastity is a beautiful virtue and that's all. Then, I think that it is quite normal that, if two persons are engaged, they feel very attracted each other. Of course we have to win the temptations and this certainly strenghten the relationship itself.
But, returning to Antigonos, I understand his point since I know many persons who call themselves Catholic and still are really "liberal" on this matter, and this is a very bad things but yes it is true that many catholics persons aren't honest in this.
I think he thought of this in his post, and so when he said "you are odd" he probably intended this in a positive way.
[/quote]
Whether or not the intentions were good, the insinuations were inappropriate.

[organwerke]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='27 December 2009 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1261925107' post='2026540']
Whether or not the intentions were good, the insinuations were inappropriate.
[/quote]
They were inappropriated if referred to phatmass users, they weren't inappropriated if referred to many catholics who say they are praticant, but that actually they don't live so. I'm sorry but I know many.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='organwerke' date='27 December 2009 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1261928536' post='2026548']
They were inappropriated if referred to phatmass users, they weren't inappropriated if referred to many catholics who say they are praticant, but that actually they don't live so. I'm sorry but I know many.
[/quote]
Well she did say "this forum's members"..... so yea, it referred to Phatmass users.

[little_miss_late]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='25 December 2009 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1261771026' post='2025974']
I wonder how many of this forum's members, who are unmarried, are being honest in their replies.

I also wonder how many of this forum's members, who are unmarried, are virgins, both men and women, since so many of you don't think that sex before marriage is permissible. Reading some of these replies made me think about the 1950s, and the Sixties film "Carnal Knowledge". I'm old enough to remember marathon dorm discussions about whether a girl who French-kissed on the first date was "fast" or not.

Given my professional experience in OB/GYN for the past 40 years, you are all either very odd or dishonest, but after all, who's counting?
[/quote]

Hm.. the question in the poll is "what is morally acceptable" not "what has been your real life experience."

I hung out with a pretty promiscuous crowd in high school, including some kids from Catholic families. If a teenager asked me today what I consider to be morally acceptable or where I would suggest drawing the line in a dating relationship--- let's just say it would be a "do as I say, not as I did" sort of conversation.

Not that I would be dishonest. But I wouldn't want to dwell on my own life either. I think most of the folks participating in this thread are younger/unmarried and are trying hard to do the right thing. So the focus should be on them and their concerns and not about the many many people who make mistakes... and then lie to their doctors. And I am sure there are many.

I have had some conversations with OB/GYNs that were, for my personal situation, just silly. Not relevant and even offensive. But I understand where the docs were coming from. And so I didn't really take offense.

Fwiw, I didn't answer the poll because I agree 100% with the people who said, much earlier in the thread, that these are the wrong questions to ask. And maybe the wrong question for a poll because the "right" answer could vary depending on the couple.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='little_miss_late' date='27 December 2009 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1261969204' post='2026725']
Hm.. the question in the poll is "what is morally acceptable" not "what has been your real life experience."

I hung out with a pretty promiscuous crowd in high school, including some kids from Catholic families. If a teenager asked me today what I consider to be morally acceptable or where I would suggest drawing the line in a dating relationship--- let's just say it would be a "do as I say, not as I did" sort of conversation.

Not that I would be dishonest. But I wouldn't want to dwell on my own life either. I think most of the folks participating in this thread are younger/unmarried and are trying hard to do the right thing. So the focus should be on them and their concerns and not about the many many people who make mistakes... and then lie to their doctors. And I am sure there are many.

I have had some conversations with OB/GYNs that were, for my personal situation, just silly. Not relevant and even offensive. But I understand where the docs were coming from. And so I didn't really take offense.

Fwiw, I didn't answer the poll because I agree 100% with the people who said, much earlier in the thread, that these are the wrong questions to ask. And maybe the wrong question for a poll because the "right" answer could vary depending on the couple.
[/quote]
Good post, but for the last part, I think the consensus is that unmarried couples cannot explore pretty much petting and groping which are foreplay, and of course "anything beyond". Good post though!!

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='missionseeker' date='23 December 2009 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1261624808' post='2025373']
For some reason, and I am not sure how to word why, I just can't agree with this. Maybe it's because our relationship is completely opposite of yours in that it's mostly long distance whereas yours at least for a while was not. I don't know. But I find the idea that distance makes the hormones turn into "raging barbaric fiends" as a little odd. I mean, sure it's an issue. But I think it's an issue for all relationships, not just long distance relationships. But the key is to remember the other person, you know? I don't want to be an obstacle for him. And despite however much I might *want* to keep kissing him, I know that not only do *I* have to keep myself chaste, but I want to make sure that I don't wreck his chastity either. Cuz there really is nothing better than kneeling at the communion rail beside him.



I could agree with that.
[/quote]


[quote name='Lil Red' date='26 December 2009 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1261857309' post='2026299']
+J.M.J.+
...
well, this is just a married person's perspective, but umm, after 3 months of missing my husband, you do miss the intimate part of your marriage and it is kinda hard to control your passions.
...[/quote]
Well, this is good that you distinguish the relationship thing. Glad you've told us of the struggle that awaits!

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='27 December 2009 - 05:31 AM' timestamp='1261909890' post='2026509']
TBH, you are married and know EXACTLY what you are missing for those three months.
[/quote]
This.

[mcts]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='25 December 2009 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1261771026' post='2025974']
I wonder how many of this forum's members, who are unmarried, are being honest in their replies.

I also wonder how many of this forum's members, who are unmarried, are virgins, both men and women, since so many of you don't think that sex before marriage is permissible. Reading some of these replies made me think about the 1950s, and the Sixties film "Carnal Knowledge". I'm old enough to remember marathon dorm discussions about whether a girl who French-kissed on the first date was "fast" or not.

Given my professional experience in OB/GYN for the past 40 years, you are all either very odd or dishonest, but after all, who's counting?
[/quote]

Ok, one, a girl who french kisses on the first date IS "fast" in my book.

Two, I know that I, along with many other people on this phorum, work very hard to protect our chastity. You insinuating otherwise is rather insulting.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='27 December 2009 - 02:31 AM' timestamp='1261909890' post='2026509']
TBH, you are married and know EXACTLY what you are missing for those three months.
[/quote]

I don't think that matters that much.

I'm missing physical touch in general when I'm away from my fiancee. Physical touch is my absolute top love language out of the 5 love languages (don't know if you've heard of them or not), but basically being touched (in any manner) is how people can best show they love me (a hug, a high five even). When the person I love the most is finally able to physically touch me (don't take "touch" as an unchaste word in this sense), after months of not being able to, it is hard to not desire more and more touch, or more and more contact, which increases sexual desires as well.

Part of it I'm sure is that we're not just dating long distance, but engaged. And we know exactly where our relationship will be going physically in the future and have in a sense, committed to it going there. One of the marriage prep questions that the priest must ask you is "Do you consent (promise/something like that) to non-contraceptive sexual intercourse with your spouse?" So in a vulgar sense, it is only a matter of time until we can go there together, and knowing that, it is hard to not go there sooner. In the more sacred meaning... of course "go there" doesn't just mean "have sex", but become a gift to each other.

[Slappo]

[quote name='XIX' date='23 December 2009 - 06:31 PM' timestamp='1261621867' post='2025349']
There is also a big difference between falling in love with someone and loving someone.
[/quote]

Please don't think that I'm mixing up the emotional aspect of my love for my fiancee with the fact that I've committed to loving her even when she grinds my gears and I don't feel like talking to her.

[quote name='XIX' date='23 December 2009 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1261622441' post='2025352']
Falling in love has mostly to do with emotions. Loving someone is a decision to do what's best for your partner, even when you emotionally don't "feel like it."

We can't really decide whom we have feelings towards, so it follows that we don't have total control over whom we fall in love with. Of course [b]by loving someone [i]unconditionally, [/i][/b] we can cultivate the feelings of romance and such. But the decision to love another person is very different from falling in love.
[/quote]

A human being cannot love unconditionally, as that would be perfect agape love, until divine union (which would mean the heights of perfection on earth, or union in heaven after death).

We are called to, and strive to love unconditionally, but we do not. Unconditional love would mean there is absolutely nothing that someone could do to break or diminish your love for them. It would be trying on even the most holy of couples to keep that under all circumstances (spouse cheated, lied, spent all the money, abused the children, turned into satanism, etc. Unconditional love would be that you still love them perfectly through that).

[quote name='missionseeker' date='23 December 2009 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1261624808' post='2025373']
For some reason, and I am not sure how to word why, I just can't agree with this. Maybe it's because our relationship is completely opposite of yours in that it's mostly long distance whereas yours at least for a while was not. I don't know. But I find the idea that distance makes the hormones turn into "raging barbaric fiends" as a little odd. I mean, sure it's an issue. But I think it's an issue for all relationships, not just long distance relationships. But the key is to remember the other person, you know? I don't want to be an obstacle for him. And despite however much I might *want* to keep kissing him, I know that not only do *I* have to keep myself chaste, but I want to make sure that I don't wreck his chastity either. Cuz there really is nothing better than kneeling at the communion rail beside him.
[/quote]

Hormones being "raging barbaric fiends" is of course a stretch, but the idea that they drive your desires into that which would be sinful if not married is no stretch at all. And, at least in my experience and others that I have met and talked to, they do so more when it has been a long period of time since you have seen your significant other. It is of course an issue for all relationships, but as I said, my experience is that long distance is more difficult than when you are always with the person.

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote name='little_miss_late' timestamp='1261969204' post='2026725']
I have had some conversations with OB/GYNs that were, for my personal situation, just silly. Not relevant and even offensive. But I understand where the docs were coming from. And so I didn't really take offense.
[/quote]

The problem is that there are not many Dr's that are well grounded in the faith.